MESA -200s for UAL...TOAST

[rickair7777]

http://www.uscourts.gov/bankruptcycourts/bankruptcybasics/chapter7.html
I understand what I typed. And I understand the ramifications of Chapter 7 vs Chapter 11.

I don't see how Chapter 11 could serve Mesa. Any BK gives Delta an immediate out of their service agreement, which Delta has been begging for. If Mesa goes into BK... it is not coming back out.

Good chance he's right. The bankruptcy laws changed in 2005, it's harder to do Ch.11 nowdays...you need financing. Would mesa be able to get loans while in BK? This is not really a good time to try that...

BTW, companies can do either Ch.11(reorganiztion) or Ch.7 (liquidation). An attempt at Ch.11 can easily get forced into Ch.7 by the court or creditors.

Managers usually prefer Ch.11...it means they can keep their jobs.

 

[Fltlvls]

Good chance he's right. The bankruptcy laws changed in 2005, it's harder to do Ch.11 nowdays...you need financing. Would mesa be able to get loans while in BK? This is not really a good time to try that...

BTW, companies can do either Ch.11(reorganiztion) or Ch.7 (liquidation). An attempt at Ch.11 can easily get forced into Ch.7 by the court or creditors.

Managers usually prefer Ch.11...it means they can keep their jobs.

Chapter 7 is much harder to get since the law changed in 05. They would rather force you to pay back some of the debt rather than leaving the creditors holding the bag. Some airlines stay in chapter 11 for years before they come out.Who said the Delta flying was tied into a bankruptcy?

 

[Flyprdu]

Chapter 7 is much harder to get since the law changed in 05. They would rather force you to pay back some of the debt rather than leaving the creditors holding the bag. Some airlines stay in chapter 11 for years before they come out.Who said the Delta flying was tied into a bankruptcy?

Do you even know what you are talking about? Chapter 7 is much more lucrative in the short run as creditors get whatever proceeds are made from the liquidation of the company.

If the creditors do not have faith that Mesa can return to profitability, they will push for Chapter 7. They can't return their parked airplanes without huge penalties. There is no new contract flying out there for 50 seat airplanes.

So unless they plan on spinning off into branded flying... and praying that they can hold on until a major will take pity on them, there is really no other option.

They have kicked the can down the road as far as it could go.

As far as a bankruptcy clause in the service agreement: it is standard language that any major changes to status of the serving company renders the service agreement void.

 

[aerobat21]

flush the turd

 

[Fltlvls]

Do you even know what you are talking about? Chapter 7 is much more lucrative in the short run as creditors get whatever proceeds are made from the liquidation of the company.

If the creditors do not have faith that Mesa can return to profitability, they will push for Chapter 7. They can't return their parked airplanes without huge penalties. There is no new contract flying out there for 50 seat airplanes.

So unless they plan on spinning off into branded flying... and praying that they can hold on until a major will take pity on them, there is really no other option.

They have kicked the can down the road as far as it could go.

As far as a bankruptcy clause in the service agreement: it is standard language that any major changes to status of the serving company renders the service
agreement void.

Mesa will go to the creditors to renegotiate leases on airplanes and if the creditors don't want to play then they will give them back. As far as the ERJs I'm sure they will give those back and just fly 70-90 seaters and become a smaller company and will probably expand Hawaii some more, who knows .. Everyone needs to stop using their "expert" advice about how the outcome will be when nothing has happened yet.

 

[dooork]

Mesa will go to the creditors to renegotiate leases on airplanes and if the creditors don't want to play then they will give them back. As far as the ERJs I'm sure they will give those back and just fly 70-90 seaters and become a smaller company and will probably expand Hawaii some more, who knows .. Everyone needs to stop using their "expert" advice about how the outcome will be when nothing has happened yet.

Bingo.

 

[Flybywire44]

What it means, is you are just one step closer to a furlough, with SKYW buying more flying, your job is on the line, and I welcome you being put on the street and returning to your old occupation as a dog fluffer.
PBR
For the record, you work(on your knees) at Gheyjhets not ASA.

Section 1.J of the ASA contract:
J. No Furlough
For the duration of this Agreement, notwithstanding the provisions of Section 23 and the provisions of paragraph 1.E.4.. above, the Company will not furlough any pilot whose name is on the seniority list on the effective date of this Agreement except in circumstances over which the Company has no control. The term “circumstances over which the Company has no control” includes, but is not limited to, a natural disaster; grounding of a substantial number of the Company’s aircraft by a government agency; reduction in flying operations because of a decrease in available fuel supply or other critical material due to either governmental action or commercial suppliers being unable to provide sufficient fuel or other critical materials for the Company’s operations; revocation of the Company’s operating certificate; war emergency; owner’s delay in delivery of aircraft scheduled for delivery; or manufacturer’s delay in delivery of new aircraft scheduled for delivery. The term “circumstances over which the Company has no control” will not include the price of fuel or other supplies, the price of aircraft, the state of the economy, the financial state of the Company, or the relative profitability or unprofitability of the Company’s then-current operations.​

Skywest has to buy or at least acquire more planes for ASA. Otherwise when ASA loses 6 more planes in the Spring we be overstaffed (or staffed perfectly for the summer?), PBS would further decrease our staffing needs. However, we are short on 700 crews now with most 700 pilots flying 90+ hour lines. In October, it was common to have only one reserve Captain. Maybe additional haul losses and PBS would staff us perfectly for the summer?

Either way, ASA cannot furlough anymore pilots. If we find ourselves with too many pilots, another option for Skywest Inc to control costs is to transfer flying/planes from Skywest to ASA. However, Skywest does not want to push their pilots to form a Union and gain work rules like no furlough clause; something their in house union could never provide.

No more furloughs can take place at ASA no matter how many planes ASA loses. However, MESA will lose their flying at Delta in 2010 and hopefully ASA will recapture its 6 aircraft from some avenue other than Skywest; our own blood.

 

[McNugent]

From what I've been told (honestly, a very reliable source) ASA will not lose those 6 airplanes at all. They will continue to fly, but on an "at risk" basis with Delta. So I'm assuming ASA/SKYW will pay for the gas and take the hit when the flights are empty. I doubt we'd have gotten rid of the 20 even if the UAL deal fell through.

 

[Tarzan]

No more furloughs can take place at ASA no matter how many planes ASA loses. However, MESA will lose their flying at Delta in 2010 and hopefully ASA will recapture its 6 aircraft from some avenue other than Skywest; our own blood.

Easy Francis. He was talking to about the GoJet flame baiter.

 

[JumpersAway]

The 200's for 700's swap is the financing that Ornstein approached Skywest about. Apparently, JO wanted Skywest Inc. to purchase the 700's, and then lease them to Mesa. Jerry told JO to go pound sand- if that doesn't cry of desperation, I don't know what does. The grim reaper is upon Mesa!