Medical fails may climb

[PCL_128]

Sounds pretty consistent to me. Thanks for posting.

Real safety issues should be addressed. Fantasies should be dismissed. Age 60 was a fantasy promoted by those who felt they needed some artificial construct to protect their career advancement.

What is your fantasy, Andy? That you force everyone to suffer as a personal vendetta?

Have you heard me complain about diabetes testing or EKG requirements? Sleep apnea is a very subjective diagnosis. If a pilot checks the box that he does not have a disqualifying condition, then that should be sufficient.

To subject a particular group that MAY suffer from a disqualifying condition to extra testing without any pre-existing symptoms should alarm everyone. Are they going to demand stress tests of all middle-aged white men? How about in-depth diabetes testing requirements only for blacks because of the higher incidence of that disease among that population?

Nice try Andy, but the retirement age issue applies to everyone and a sensible change was made. This new "Guilty until proven innocent" policy does little more than unnecessarily subject pilots to a loss of livelihood without a shred of added safety.

Again (what is it now, 3 times) what drives your support for onerous medical requirements that do not enhance safety? You still can't answer, can you?

What are you so worked up about? Don't you have disability coverage in your contract? Pull my medical for all I care. I'll be more than happy to collect 2/3 income for doing absolutely nothing.

 

[LearLove]

This may hurt GA more than it hurts us (prof. pilots). As pilots who make their living flying we are more inclined to jump through the hoops to get approved if diagnosed. However Joe GA pilot wheather he rents a 172 or owns a Bonanza probably won't want to put in the effort or money to get his/her medical approved with sleep apnea so they'll just take their money and toss it at boats instead of airplanes.

A Bonanza owner that flies 50 hours per year pumps about $10K (if not more) into GA related businesses between fuel, MX, hangar and insurance. Way to go ****************************** bags at the FAA. You're so smart you're going to regulate yourself right out of a job.

 

[Flopgut]

What are you so worked up about? Don't you have disability coverage in your contract? Pull my medical for all I care. I'll be more than happy to collect 2/3 income for doing absolutely nothing.

I'm guessing Harvey Watt has sh1t an egg roll

 

[waveflyer]

Why, exactly?

The BMI issue is just a starting point. Eventually every pilot will have to undergo this testing and perhaps be forced to wear a CPAP mask for the rest of their careers. I understand the parallels with EKG testing, but sleep apnea is very subjective and with enough pressure from CPAP manufacturers on AME's, many pilots will be stuck wearing one every night for 20 or 30 years.

And should you want to eventually fly under Sport Pilot rules without a medical, you may find this puts that in jeopardy. Going to look for another flying job overseas. The Special Issuance you may require could disqualify you from many jobs.

Sleep Apnea is not caused by being fat. And losing weight does not necessarily make it go away (most of the time it doesn't). It does come on generally in later middle age and maybe you just have a grudge against older pilots. I hope you get the chance to become one some day.

But I don't share your enthusiasm for something that adds very little safety benefit, but comes at potentially a very high cost.

I agree with you

Which is what most of us anti-age 65 were saying
Increasing the age will come with tighter medical restrictions

Thanks gummers

 

[densoo]

Increasing the age will come with tighter medical restrictions

Thanks gummers

Which is occurring after those who windfall benefitted from it are retired, and not subject to the greater restrictions. They got the unexpected five years while the rest of us stagnated and then due to beauracratic lag time also get the tougher rules. They left with the bag of cash, we're just left holding the bag.

 

[waveflyer]

Yep.

And they DO NOT CARE

There is only one way to treat the boomers-
They've left all of us in a worse spot- f^ck em and start looking out for ourselves-

Remember they did this by getting involved- so we have to now

 

[Nindiri]

I'm guessing Harvey Watt has sh1t an egg roll

They will just call it a self-inflicted condition and refuse to pay.

 

[Bringupthebird]

I agree with you

Which is what most of us anti-age 65 were saying
Increasing the age will come with tighter medical restrictions

Thanks gummers

What percentage of the inflight incapacitations in the last 6 years involved pilots over 60?

 

[Flopgut]

What percentage of the inflight incapacitations in the last 6 years involved pilots over 60?

2 out of 3 CAL pilots that died in flight were. The one that was under 60 was before the rule changed. Does being dead meet your criteria?

 

[Andy]

2 out of 3 CAL pilots that died in flight were. The one that was under 60 was before the rule changed. Does being dead meet your criteria?

Please do not confuse Bringupthebird with facts. He likes living in a fact free bubble. Guys like him believe that pilots who are 60+ are healthier and less of a risk than pilots younger than 50. Good luck trying to have a factual conversation with him.

All pilots will see tightening medical requirements over time. While age 60+ pilots increase the risk of inflight incapacitation and performance decrement, the FAA isn't going to single them out; every single pilot will face tougher medical standards. Just like TSA doesn't profile certain higher risk groups - everyone's subject to pat downs at airport check points. No age discrimination allowed.

 

[crxpilot]

This is wrong on many levels. It needs to be stopped before it is started. The sleep study alone costs big bucks!

 

[Crash Pad]

Will you guys please get to the comedy of this:

1. Guys on the overnight cutting wait like wrestlers. Running up and down the hotel hallway in trash bags and sweat shirts.

2. Interview: tell me about a time you exercised. Tell me about a time you walked away from a crew drinking and eating wings.

3. The obvious FA windfall

4. How about the BMI and retirement numbers at Delta/United etc.

 

[rumpletumbler]

Will Stephanie Abrams be allowed to continue masquerading as a woman under the new rules?

 

[Freebrd]

Man she has some big ums!

 

[Whine Lover]

"Don't you have disability coverage in your contract? Pull my medical for all I care. I'll be more than happy to collect 2/3 income for doing absolutely nothing."

Quite the cavalier attitude...You will be paid NOTHING Sir.

Sleep Apnea is NOT a disability under any LTD contract.

You will not be disabled and will not qualify for your Insurance/LTD.

You WILL have lost your FAA Medical and unless you have specific Insurance for that you will find yourself without income until you are re-qualified by the FAA Aeromedical Office in OKC.

Ready for THAT financially ?

I was, but it still SUCKED.

Been there, done it.

YKW

 

[PCL_128]

Wrong. Our disability language is loss-of-license language. Anything that causes you to lose your medical certificate qualifies.

 

[Ty Webb]

Wrong. Our disability language is loss-of-license language. Anything that causes you to lose your medical certificate qualifies.

Yup. And previous to the Loss of License coverage, sleep apnea was definitely covered, as it rendered you unable to hold a medical certificate, and therefore unable to perform your job. We had a few guys who had to go on medical leave and go through the process, which is very lengthy and intrusive. They were covered, though.

Ty

 

[Jetjockey]

All LTD plans are not created equally Whine Lover. Don't relate the weak language ATA had to all airlines. I know CAL/UAL and SWA have pretty good programs.


When companies who pay disabilty benefits start forking over cash.....they find a way to get pilots back to work. There are pilots who come back after far more serious medical issues. This just creates more work and expense for all involved. Will this expensive burden make aviation safer?

I agree with a previous poster who said it hits the GA flyer much harder. Most GA flyers will not go through the hassle. The big issue I have is the unwarranted intrusion and expense for a problem that dwarfs in comparison to real safety of flight issues. This is a completely misguided policy by the FAA Medical Chief. Pilots self certify on medical issues all the time. Should we screen pilots for every known medical issue? We are flying airplanes in a multi-crew environment.......we are not going into space.

It will be interesting to see the reaction of trade unions and associations like AOPA. I have a feeling this policy meets resistance.

 

[waveflyer]

2 out of 3 CAL pilots that died in flight were. The one that was under 60 was before the rule changed. Does being dead meet your criteria?

Bird-

I'll type slowly for you-

IT
DOES
NOT
MATTER

it wasn't an artificial construct to protect career progression
It's an artificial construct to keep big brother out of ridiculous medical standards

The two are very much linked
I'm sure you'll say they aren't and you'd be wrong

I also strongly oppose the bmi standards of what is healthy-
I'm 6'4"
Do the math-
40 is reasonable

The doc though is pushing for sleep apnea to be a major part of the physical
Historically, and culturally- pilots haven't been good about sleep-
Part of our "toughness" is flying at all hours

That is on us-

My blood pressure was never high- but did drop 10 points on the high number 135-> 125 just bc SWA doesn't reverse our sleep schedule
I fly PMs and feel great

 

[Jetjockey]

An interesting note. There was an attempt to have commercial truck drivers tested for sleep apnea (OSA). It went through normal policy making and it was shot down in congress.

The unilateral imposition of rules by one person is what is most disturbing about this entire issue.