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Medical fails may climb

  • Thread starter Thread starter densoo
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Has a plane ever crashed in the United States because one of the pilots died/medicaled out in flight? Has it ever even been close?

Yes. Closest was 1 of the 3 on duty heart attacks CAL had in 2007. The one that landed in McAllen, TX. That happened to be the same year we went to age 65. I'm pretty sure we're only talking about sleep apnea as a result of age 65.
 
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The simple fact is a pilot below 60 as overweight as is being targeted here is at much greater risk for inflight health problems than a 65 year old who is healthy.
 
Yes. Closest was 1 of the 3 on duty heart attacks CAL had in 2007. The one that landed in McAllen, TX. That happened to be the same year we went to age 65. I'm pretty sure we're only talking about sleep apnea as a result of age 65.

He said crashed. You said yes. Which one crashed?
Also, if your trying to make a case against age 65, something that happened the "year the law was changed" would have nothing to due with the results of pilots flying to 65. The year the law was changed everyone was still under 61.
 
Has a plane ever crashed in the United States because one of the pilots died/medicaled out in flight? Has it ever even been close?
It's not about safety. It's about someone being given power to force you to do what they think is good for you. They were never even challenged for that power.

If it was about safety, they would look at the true sources of fatigue and it isn't snoring!
 
He said crashed. You said yes. Which one crashed?

Read it again. He asked if it was "even close", I said "yes" to that. If you knew the whole story on that one you'd share my opinion.

We could have skipped all of this. We had a perfect rule that let all of us live as we wanted (eat, drink, smoke, run, sleep, whatever) and we threw it away.

*and we all could have flown as long as we wanted!! Tell me 60 for FAR 121 (other FAR NO limit!) doesn't look too bad when we're looking at a rule that could ground a lot of pilots a lot earlier. And we know from military practice that the sleep apnea criteria really doesn't work. All of us should take this test, or none of us. BMI is not an adequate indicator.
 
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Also, if your trying to make a case against age 65, something that happened the "year the law was changed" would have nothing to due with the results of pilots flying to 65. The year the law was changed everyone was still under 61.

Also: I said it just "happened to be." I'm pointing out coincidence Dan, cool it. Btw another coincidence: it's 11 months after the 5 year period Prater had written into the law the statement that no medical changes should be effected. Interesting.
 
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If you've got sleep issues (now, with a 17" neck, you apparently do) you need to be screened for depression as well.

"Doctors have known for years that sleep problems are intertwined with mood disorders. But only recently have they begun to investigate the effects of treating both at the same time. Depression is the most common mental disorder, affecting some 18 million Americans in any given year, according to government figures, and more than half of them also have insomnia."

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/19/health/treating-insomnia-to-heal-depression.html
 
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Hope they don't look at the Sporty's Pilot Shop database. From the number of people I see wearing a 17" collar on a 15" neck they could wipe out 30% of the pilot group.
 
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Perfect timing with the new FAR 117 rest rules.
 
Yes. Closest was 1 of the 3 on duty heart attacks CAL had in 2007. The one that landed in McAllen, TX. That happened to be the same year we went to age 65. I'm pretty sure we're only talking about sleep apnea as a result of age 65.

Nevermind
 
Look, here's the deal......

wow, that's weird, I just fell asleep while I was typing...now I can't remember what I was going to say.
 
Perfect timing with the new FAR 117 rest rules.
Suspicion of being fatigued is being put right up there with suspicion of alcohol use. No more yawning in uniform. If you're holding a cup of coffee you must be fatigued. If you're irritable ("got up on wrong side of the bed") you must be fatigued.

"FATIGUE EDUCATION AND AWARENESS TRAINING must be provided annually to all employees with the responsibility of administering this rule, including flightcrew members, dispatchers, crew schedulers, and individuals involved in operational control or direct management oversight. 117.9(a)"

117.3.6.f. "Reporting Fatigued Flightcrew. Flightcrew members and other employees should be cognizant of the appearance and behavior of fellow flightcrew members displaying signs of fatigue. If a flightcrew member (or any other employee) believes another flightcrew member may be too tired to fly, the FAA encourages each flightcrew member and other employees to voluntarily inform their employer when they observe a fatigued flightcrew member.

117.3.5.d. "Symptoms of Fatigue. Common symptoms of fatigue include: Measurable reduction in speed and accuracy of performance, Lapses of attention and vigilance, Delayed reactions, Impaired logical reasoning and decisionmaking, including a reduced ability to assess risk or appreciate consequences of actions, Reduced situational awareness, and Low motivation."

That last one cuts a wide swath. Removed from trip, FSAP report, wait for FRC to determine pay, and meet with FAA about proving why you weren't lying when you signed in stating you weren't fatigued.
 
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Suspicion of being fatigued is being put right up there with suspicion of alcohol use. No more yawning in uniform. If you're holding a cup of coffee you must be fatigued. If you're irritable ("got up on wrong side of the bed") you must be fatigued.

"FATIGUE EDUCATION AND AWARENESS TRAINING must be provided annually to all employees with the responsibility of administering this rule, including flightcrew members, dispatchers, crew schedulers, and individuals involved in operational control or direct management oversight. 117.9(a)"

117.3.6.f. "Reporting Fatigued Flightcrew. Flightcrew members and other employees should be cognizant of the appearance and behavior of fellow flightcrew members displaying signs of fatigue. If a flightcrew member (or any other employee) believes another flightcrew member may be too tired to fly, the FAA encourages each flightcrew member and other employees to voluntarily inform their employer when they observe a fatigued flightcrew member.

117.3.5.d. "Symptoms of Fatigue. Common symptoms of fatigue include: Measurable reduction in speed and accuracy of performance, Lapses of attention and vigilance, Delayed reactions, Impaired logical reasoning and decisionmaking, including a reduced ability to assess risk or appreciate consequences of actions, Reduced situational awareness, and Low motivation."

That last one cuts a wide swath. Removed from trip, FSAP report, wait for FRC to determine pay, and meet with FAA about proving why you weren't lying when you signed in stating you weren't fatigued.
Is paranoia a sign of fatigue?
 
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Has a plane ever crashed in the United States because one of the pilots died/medicaled out in flight? Has it ever even been close?

Well, 40 people almost went swimming...

NTSB reports on pilots falling asleep

WASHINGTON
By Alan Levin, USA TODAY

Two airline pilots fell asleep while cruising over Hawaii last February, flying past their destination toward open ocean for 18 minutes before waking up and returning for a safe landing, federal accident investigators revealed Tuesday.

That incident and an accident in Traverse City, Mich., last year highlight the need for more comprehensive rules to stem the growing list of crashes attributed to the lengthy hours that pilots routinely work, the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) said. Crashes linked to fatigue have killed 249 people since 1997, according to NTSB records.

"It's an insidious issue," NTSB Chairman Mark Rosenker said. "Many times the pilots themselves don't recognize that they are fatigued when they get into that cockpit."

The NTSB voted to recommend that federal aviation regulators and airlines use fatigue studies to rewrite the rules for how long pilots can legally fly. Currently, federal law allows pilots to work up to 16 hours a day, including up to eight hours behind the controls, and loopholes allow longer days in some situations.

Air-traffic controllers frantically radioed Go Airlines Flight 1002 from Honolulu to Hilo, Hawaii, for 18 minutes on Feb. 13, but got no response from the pilots, said NTSB investigator Jana Price.
In the safety board's first disclosure of details from the investigation, Price said both pilots "unintentionally fell asleep" as the Bombardier CRJ-200 jet flew at 21,000 feet. The jet carried 40 passengers.

The two pilots had been flying together for three arduous days "that involved early start times" and a "demanding" sequence of short flights, Price said. Since the incident, the captain had been diagnosed with severe obstructive sleep apnea, she said. Apnea causes people to repeatedly wake up during the night and has been linked to poor work performance and accidents.

In a separate investigation, the NTSB concluded that a regional airline crash last year in Traverse City was probably triggered by fatigue. Pinnacle Airlines Flight 4712 skidded off the end of a snowy runway on April 12, 2007, after landing in the early hours of the morning. None of the 49 passengers, two pilots and a flight attendant were injured.
The NTSB found that the pilots of the Bombardier CRJ-200 should never have attempted the landing.

The runway was too slick to land under the airline's rules, but the pilots failed to perform a basic landing calculation and missed other warning signs that the weather was deteriorating.

The accident happened after the pilots had worked 14 hours. The cockpit recorder overheard the pilots yawning and the captain made repeated references to being tired, the NTSB found.

The NTSB has been calling for reform of pilot work rules for decades. Several attempts to rewrite pilot work rules have failed in the face of opposition from airlines and pilot groups.
 

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