MDA guys!

[FlamingFUPA]

What is a Noob ???

if you ask that, then it is you

 

[Popeye0537]

Thanks for justifying my choice. Do you understand why your pilot group has a bad reputation in this industry?


No I don't understand....but I sure with your vast amount of knowledge you can inform me so I'm no longer ignorant about it!!

You don't have enough time to even get an interview with CHQ so quit whinning about it.


A "Noob" is a newbie, green horn, grass hopper.....LOL

 

[SennaP1]

Thanks for justifying my choice. Do you understand why your pilot group has a bad reputation in this industry?

OH, sorry...Do we?

Why did you need justification?

Rotten apples are everywhere. Even in the land of pay freezes and whatnot, (I keed, I keed) Surely you know this or will soon.

Good Luck Fellow WM Aviator.

 

[LearLove]

Listen guys, this is just my personal thinking and drive behind my stand and what I want from this mess. I don't care what you or airways or what bidford or the judge calls the deal. A sale, auction, transfer, hell I don't give a crapola if they auction the planes on Ebay, But these executives (within U or CHQ or anyother airline or industry for that matter) have to start taking responsibility for the results of their actions.

Fine, they want to sell, then they need to be responsible for the harm they cause the employees (Pilots or whoever) that are the ones out there making the show run. So when you sell a division all accompaning employees go with all accrued benifits because if you guys out there on the other side of the fence think this will be the last time this happens, well you've got another thing (or rusty shaft) comming.

How long do you CHQ guys think it might be before BB says, "hey my CHQ/Rep guys are getting like 10 plus years senority and its costing me too much. Lets get Wex to start a new subsidary and transfer all the 190's over there. We will call it a sale and offer your exp and trained guys jobs but they will have to start over again"? Laugh, scoff, push it aside, think its too far down the road for you 26 year old mind to comprehend, even come back at me with "our conrtact says..... and our scope language this and that". Well boys BB has already done it once (Saab guys post 911) and its been done at other places and its happening to us now. Maybe each case isn't exactly the same but each time it smells of the same crap.

Here is something else, when is it going to end? You guys (and I'm not just talking to CHQ guys) may think "just get me past this MDA thing then it will settle down". Then here comes Delta, there looking like they may be in big trouble, bizz plan for them may call for replacing many of their MD-80's with 170's flown by CHQ because Mama Delta aint got no $$ for planes. 'Yeppe, yahoo more airplanes and flying for us" you say, but now your looking down the barrell of DAL ALPA pushing another 500 pilots your way in order for you to have permission to fly thoes new planes. See what i'm getting at?

 

[LearLove]

Another thing, something that needs to be pointed out. Once there was this airline out of TTN then PNE called Ransome. He flew ALG commuter then Pan AM. In 87 Pan Am offered Ransome lots of money for his airline (mainly for the gate space inJFK from what I understand). When he finally sold his 115 or so pilot got DOH with Pan Am which is was JD insisted on. He was Pilots pilot and I'm proud to have known him. We need more guys like him running the show out there.

 

[kngarthur]

Listen guys, this is just my personal thinking and drive behind my stand and what I want from this mess. I don't care what you or airways or what bidford or the judge calls the deal. A sale, auction, transfer, hell I don't give a crapola if they auction the planes on Ebay, But these executives (within U or CHQ or anyother airline or industry for that matter) have to start taking responsibility for the results of their actions.

Fine, they want to sell, then they need to be responsible for the harm they cause the employees (Pilots or whoever) that are the ones out there making the show run. So when you sell a division all accompaning employees go with all accrued benifits because if you guys out there on the other side of the fence think this will be the last time this happens, well you've got another thing (or rusty shaft) comming.

How long do you CHQ guys think it might be before BB says, "hey my CHQ/Rep guys are getting like 10 plus years senority and its costing me too much. Lets get Wex to start a new subsidary and transfer all the 190's over there. We will call it a sale and offer your exp and trained guys jobs but they will have to start over again"? Laugh, scoff, push it aside, think its too far down the road for you 26 year old mind to comprehend, even come back at me with "our conrtact says..... and our scope language this and that". Well boys BB has already done it once (Saab guys post 911) and its been done at other places and its happening to us now. Maybe each case isn't exactly the same but each time it smells of the same crap.

Here is something else, when is it going to end? You guys (and I'm not just talking to CHQ guys) may think "just get me past this MDA thing then it will settle down". Then here comes Delta, there looking like they may be in big trouble, bizz plan for them may call for replacing many of their MD-80's with 170's flown by CHQ because Mama Delta aint got no $$ for planes. 'Yeppe, yahoo more airplanes and flying for us" you say, but now your looking down the barrell of DAL ALPA pushing another 500 pilots your way in order for you to have permission to fly thoes new planes. See what i'm getting at?

Try this! Reread his post, but instead use the voice of a 6 year old crying kid that just got beat up on the playground. Pretty funny!

 

[FlamingFUPA]

kngarthur-STFU

 

[low-key]

youre all gay

 

[ERJDRVR2]

Lear,


Are you going to swallow your pride and "lower" yourself to fly with us? I feel for all the MDA guys but you. I have not forgot you are/were the most negative/anti CHQ pilot on here.
What good is it for you MDA guys not to take the job with 50% of the seats? Why not take the job and fight your fight with USAIR & ALPA why you are flying the line? If you lose that "change of control" fight, you still have a job.

You guys @ MDA want to point the fingers @ RP. You guys willingly went aboard a sinking ship (MDA). We simply voted to accept 1/2 of the USAIR pilots in exchange for aircraft. People claimed we took it in the A55 for this. Maybe, maybe not. Looks like we got the best of both worlds on this deal. We got the planes and only 8 pilots to go with them. Pretty good deal for us, a royal screw by USAIR for you (MDA).

So my main question again is: Why not take the job why you/ALPA fights USAIR?

 

[FurloughedAgain]

"You guys willingly went aboard a sinking ship."

I'm getting real tired of listening to you folks criticize the decision we made in 1999 to accept employment by a major airline that was hiring over 100 pilots per month and taking delivery of a new Airbus every week.

Monday morning quarterbacks?

 

[ERJDRVR2]

"You guys willingly went aboard a sinking ship."

I'm getting real tired of listening to you folks criticize the decision we made in 1999 to accept employment by a major airline that was hiring over 100 pilots per month and taking delivery of a new Airbus every week.

Monday morning quarterbacks?

That was MDA NOT USAIR.

 

[CFII]

Has a class started for the old MDA planes yet at Republic? I know the first wave rejected to come over, but haven't a couple come over? Thanks.

 

[LearLove]

Lear,


Are you going to swallow your pride and "lower" yourself to fly with us? I feel for all the MDA guys but you. I have not forgot you are/were the most negative/anti CHQ pilot on here.
What good is it for you MDA guys not to take the job with 50% of the seats? Why not take the job and fight your fight with USAIR & ALPA why you are flying the line? If you lose that "change of control" fight, you still have a job.

You guys @ MDA want to point the fingers @ RP. You guys willingly went aboard a sinking ship (MDA). We simply voted to accept 1/2 of the USAIR pilots in exchange for aircraft. People claimed we took it in the A55 for this. Maybe, maybe not. Looks like we got the best of both worlds on this deal. We got the planes and only 8 pilots to go with them. Pretty good deal for us, a royal screw by USAIR for you (MDA).

So my main question again is: Why not take the job why you/ALPA fights USAIR?

Actually I would like to work there. I have several friends (pilots and nonpilots) there and they like it for the most part. I however do not want a J4J job over there. I would like to be integrated in with atleast my MDA doh which would give me a year senority. Also priority #1 is that all 100% of us get an offer, not 50%. If the senior MDA guys hadn't stuck up for us junior guys by not taking a class the j4j thing would never come down to me. By turning it down I am standing with my fellow pilots.

All I'm asking for is:
-100% MDA guys get an offer
-atleast our MDA DOH (or the date we bid over to MDA as non of us were hired here, it was a bidable position)
-no training contract
-no double hotel rooms in training

I really don't put much stock in my "mainline" senority number. We all can see that once this "deal" is done 190's will come then we can kiss the rest of mainline goodbye. So I feel its in our best interest to some kind of DOH at CHQ/Rep/SA so that we start gaining senority because I bet we'll be flying these 170/190s for a very long time. Just my thoughts.

As for your comment about being "anti CHQ" I believe we addressed that in the past. We've come along way on this board I've met alot of guys that I've had diff points of view with on this board and become friends. Infact earlier today I got a call from one of your senior check airman who lives near me at home. We often swap info on whats going on even before all this stuff

Ask furloughedagain about some of our old battles. You would never think a WO guy and a mainline guy could work together but we are now doing it everyday at MDA, he11 we share a crashpad with WO and mainline guys. I've spent 6 days in a crashpad with mainline guys and nobody has slit anyones thoat, its like a X-mas miricle. You never would have thought that several years ago.

Anyway, enough is enough.

 

[FurloughedAgain]

He has undergone quite a transformation -- i'll give him that much.

Lear's anger wasn't specifically aimed at Chautauqua. In years past he was angry at Chautauqua, Mesa, mainline, ALPA ... anybody who has (in his mind) negatively affected his perceived career expectations.

He has mellowed quite a bit since then.

To be honest, I was very surprised that he took the MDA job.

Quite frankly Learlove -- and all of the MidAtlantic pilots -- are overqualified for a newhire F/O position at Chautauqua/Republic. IF they take the offer, I would bet that they will have found other employment within a year.

I'm very glad that I didn't take the MidAtlantic offer when my number came up. A year ago saying "no" was the toughest decision i ever had to make. Now it seems like one of the only career decisions I ever got right.

 

[CFII]

.........

 

[Popeye0537]

Just wondering but how is anyone "overqualified" for anything nowadays? I have a 4 yr degree..does that make me overqualified for the regionals? I think you see it as you would rather not be juinor to a 23yr old captain.

Its not easy for anyone to start over again...this is my second time. But don't gimme the whole "I'm over qualified" BS, I sit right seat to guys who flew all the heavy iron at US.

 

[FurloughedAgain]

I certainly did not mean any disrespect.

I've started over 3 times since my USAir furlough, so dont mistake my comment for arrogance.

The fact is that Lear -- and most of the MDA guys -- have years and years of experience. That experience has value.

Given the choice of starting over after 15 years in the industry as a CHQ newhire (essentially no-better than a 20 year-old FSI academy grad with 500 hrs) or seeking other employment, i'm betting they'll be job-hunting.

Why? A couple of reasons. Chautauqua's F/O pay is pretty piss-poor and these guys have been screwed around by the industry long enough to know that this 2.5 year upgrade garbage will not last forever.

Second, there are other aviation opportunities out there! They may not be airline opportunities, but they exist. I KNOW that these guys have been looking outside of the airlines. Do a search on Learlove and you can see that even he has looked at corporate jobs which may (in some cases) be more stable and (in most cases) will pay significantly more.

Lastly, sure -- there is an element of ego involved. When you were flying part 121 before some of the Captains with whome you fly had even taken their first flying lesson.... well, needless to say that's a bitter pill to swallow. It can be done! But, unless there is a clear career-path that one can see, I doubt that it can be done without at least looking around for something a little better for the ol' self image.

Just my opinion -- I still have a couple of friends at Chautauqua who have been able to make fantastic careers there!!! (but they're not newhire F/Os ... and i'm guessing if they had to start over, they too would look for better opportunities)

 

[RP170]

I certainly did not mean any disrespect.

I've started over 3 times since my USAir furlough, so dont mistake my comment for arrogance.

The fact is that Lear -- and most of the MDA guys -- have years and years of experience. That experience has value.

Given the choice of starting over after 15 years in the industry as a CHQ newhire (essentially no-better than a 20 year-old FSI academy grad with 500 hrs) or seeking other employment, i'm betting they'll be job-hunting.

Why? A couple of reasons. Chautauqua's F/O pay is pretty piss-poor and these guys have been screwed around by the industry long enough to know that this 2.5 year upgrade garbage will not last forever.

Second, there are other aviation opportunities out there! They may not be airline opportunities, but they exist. I KNOW that these guys have been looking outside of the airlines. Do a search on Learlove and you can see that even he has looked at corporate jobs which may (in some cases) be more stable and (in most cases) will pay significantly more.

Lastly, sure -- there is an element of ego involved. When you were flying part 121 before some of the Captains with whome you fly had even taken their first flying lesson.... well, needless to say that's a bitter pill to swallow. It can be done! But, unless there is a clear career-path that one can see, I doubt that it can be done without at least looking around for something a little better for the ol' self image.

Just my opinion -- I still have a couple of friends at Chautauqua who have been able to make fantastic careers there!!! (but they're not newhire F/Os ... and i'm guessing if they had to start over, they too would look for better opportunities)

And MDA FO pay sucks too. Get over yourself and deal with the crappy hand you've been dealt just like all of us in the industry have been recently. I'm on my 3rd airline in 3 years but I'm not gonna sit here and cry about starting over and flying with guys that are several years younger than me in the left seat. Put your ego aside for once. The bottom line is the industry sucks right now and so does management. Life isn't fair. If you don't like it, go do something else.

 

[FurloughedAgain]

um... RP170 -- I AM doing something else. I don't work for Chautauqua or MidAtlantic. I don't have a dog in this hunt.

I was simply defending Learlove and trying to give you guys some insight into the reasons why people may not want to come on over to Chautauqua at the bottom of the list.

 

[RP170]

um... RP170 -- I AM doing something else. I don't work for Chautauqua or MidAtlantic. I don't have a dog in this hunt.

I was simply defending Learlove and trying to give you guys some insight into the reasons why people may not want to come on over to Chautauqua at the bottom of the list.

Good for you.