MD-11 FO new hires at UPS

[Lakehouse]

I heard UPS is puting new hires in the MD-11.
What's the good and bad?
What's the latest on the ANC base?
What are the flying schedules like and where do they usually fly?

 

[Green Baron 737]

Anc

>I heard UPS is puting new hires in the MD-11.

Not sure if it's official but HR seem to be hand picking guys with heavy time. They won't be hired into the MD-11 for a while. ANC base doesn't open until Spring '07 and the beginning of the 74-400's won't be here until around then.

>What's the good and bad?

Good if it works out. Bad if they have a hard landing by a newhire.

It will be an MD-11 and 74-400 base. New LOA signed a few weeks ago. 2 hour call out that limits where you can live. ANC Newhires will be on about 54K. (extra $1500 per 2 week paycheck). UPS will pay for your move if you sign up for 3 years. If you don't sign up then who knows how long it will take to get back. Some will love it some will hate it. Commuting could be pretty hard.

Flying will be around the Pac rim mostly. Some shorter trips. Don't expect to see too much of the mainland USA.
GB

 

[GittinFatter]

Sign me up!!!

 

[capt. megadeth]

I heard (in the cafeteria the other night so take it for what it's worth) that the company is starting to realize the commuting issue. Supposedly they are going to try to make the lines more commuter friendly. The capt. that I was flying with were saying that when the dust settles the ANC thing may be the place to be. Ya never know....we shall see.

 

[Big Beer Belly]

>I heard UPS is puting new hires in the MD-11.

Not sure if it's official but HR seem to be hand picking guys with heavy time. They won't be hired into the MD-11 for a while.
/QUOTE]

Spoke w/ Phil D. several weeks ago ... they are "concerned" about the experience level of new hire MD-11 pilots and are keen on hiring pilots with heavy/intl experience to fill those positions to the max extent possible. It appears UPS "initially" bases all MD-11 new hires in SDF and will no doubt re-assign many to ANC later (after explaining the $ inducement/voluntary seat freeze).

My understanding is we have new hire MD guys right now or will very shortly (next few weeks).

I applaud the company for recognizing a "potential" safety pitfall with the opening of ANC. Unless the planets realign overnight, there is no doubt that ANC is/will continue to be a very junior domicile operating widebody acft in a demanding environment (intl). They have come up with financial incentives ($ and paid moves BOTH directions) to attract and maintain experienced pilots in ANC in order to reduce the likelihood of a revolving training/experience door.

No doubt some will find fault with the company somehow on this, but I give them credit when it's due. They're addressing a potential experience/safety margin concern proactively in an attempt to avoid an accident.

Oh, and for you single guys ... let's not forget there's like 150 guys for every eligible female up there so mating season is pretty competetive! (go north Mega! ... lose that bum you're planning to marry!! )

BBB

 

[71KILO]

I interview this week! I've been to ANC and it's not bad up there. Granted, It's not my first choice but I would commute to Timbuktoo the long way around if Brown offers me a career. I figure get in and change domiciles later with some seniority. My daughter is young and my wife is willing to move so we could survive ANC, for a while anyway. Guess I better learn to fish if all goes well.

 

[1800 RVR]

Good luck on the interview, 71KILO!

 

[capt. megadeth]

Oh, and for you single guys ... let's not forget there's like 150 guys for every eligible female up there so mating season is pretty competetive! (go north Mega! ... lose that bum you're planning to marry!! )

BBB

I dunno man....I can't see any of 'em being as sweet as my litte sugar dumplin'

 

[Gorilla]

How can UPS bypass seniority to put experienced guys in the MD-11? Or am I misunderstanding? I'm not trying to flame or bash, just wanted to be sure what is going on.

AA put new hires into 757's flying to South America a few years ago. While they avoided disaster, some of the Captains said it would have been easier solo. The MD-11 is not a noob transport, and you can get into trouble pretty quick.

Added: Just reread the thread. Is the idea that UPS have a few new-hire classes be more experienced than the norm to fill needed MD-11 seats? That would make sense.

 

[Big Beer Belly]

How can UPS bypass seniority to put experienced guys in the MD-11? Or am I misunderstanding?

Added: Just reread the thread. Is the idea that UPS have a few new-hire classes be more experienced than the norm to fill needed MD-11 seats? That would make sense.

Seniority is not being violated. Perhaps this will help:

Vacancy bids are posted for CAPT, FO, and SO seats on all fleets periodically. When there are insufficient bidders for an FO/SO seat/fleet/domicile the company hires directly into those seats (ex. MD-11). ANC seats are diving junior and will dive more junior in subsequent vacancy bids (rumor has it ANC could eventually have approx 400+ pilots ... now only 100+).

UPS is voluntarily paying new hires heading to ANC an additional approx $20k and paying for their move to ANC in order to attract highly experienced/qualified new hire pilot candidates. Also, they are enticing current line pilots (presumably more experienced than a new hire) to go to ANC for a minimum of 3 years by providing a fully paid move in BOTH directions if you agree to stay for at least 3 years. These items were NOT negotiated per se, they were offered by UPS in the interest of safety to attract as many experienced crew members to ANC as they could. In this case, I applaud the company strongly.

Yes, the company is screening successful interview candidates closely for the ANC slots and seeking pilots with heavy/intl experience. This is not to say they are excluding highly experienced pilots with other backgrounds, just that they are attempting to best match pilot to acft.

BBB

 

[GeorgeTG]

the company is screening successful interview candidates closely for the ANC slots and seeking pilots with heavy/intl experience.

Good.

The thread title scared me.

Newhire + MD-11 = 40M+ of bent metal.

Cheers
George

 

[TriStar_drvr]

World Airways puts new-hires into the right seat of MD-11s. I believe many of them have gone into that position from RJs or even (gasp) turboprops. ATA also put new-hires into L-1011s who previously had never flown anything larger than a 1900 or a Jetstream. Just noting that it can be done.

 

[Rook]

Good post Tristar.

Buddy of mine went from the panel of the '27 to F/O MD-11. Didn't have any trouble in the transition at all.

Rook

 

[Hawker rider]

have some faith in your training department!! i don't know what the big deal is with these new hires.

If a pilot will not be able to handle the airplane he is assigned to, surely he or she will wash out during training. It happends all the time with big airlines all over the globe and here in the USA too. Direct entry F/O into a heavy jet.

 

[L'il J.Seinfeld]

The big deal is the way our system operates. The World Airways MD-11 newhires have few problems because they get to fly a lot and make landings. Our guys will be serving as relief pilots and may average less than 1 landing per bid period. If you mix in a guy without heavy jet experience it could lead to problems. As far as the international aspect goes I do not see a problem. I learned to fly overseas and do not see that big of a difference. It takes 1 or 2 trips across the Atlantic to learn the NAT intricacies and the Pacific is even easier. Flying around the S. CHina sea is not as hard as people think and many of the HK controllers are Brits.

 

[B-atch]

Don't sweat it...Polar does this all the time. Polar currently has approx 50 current and qualified 747-400 pilots on furlough. Some of these guys live in ANC. I'm sure UPS will have no problem in attracting heavy, international experienced guys. Just because you're new doesn't make you INEXPERIENCED.

 

[TriStar_drvr]

... I'm sure UPS will have no problem in attracting heavy, international experienced guys...

Hey, I may have put on a few pounds, but I don't consider myself "heavy" yet!

 

[Gorilla]

Very true, guys transition successfully and fly the MD-11 just fine, but two things pop up.

First, the MD-11 is simply trickier to fly, period, than most other transports. Combine that with dog-doo ANC weather, and a complex international scenario off-base, it makes for a real workload.

Second, they want the FO to be a contributing member. It's possible to put a total schlub in the right seat, and if the Captain is sharp, they can operate a long time like that, but it shouldn't be the CA's job to babysit and/or instruct... the right seat guy should contribute nicely right away.

I too applaud what UPS is doing.

 

[b19]

Just Curious

I'd like to hear how big of a difference there is between the 10 and the 11, and what if any are the shortcomings of the 11 as compared to the 10.

 

[b19]

Not looking to start a fight, just educate myself as I have only flown one of the above, and wanted to hear some other opinions, thanks.

 

[Take A]

First...ANC?....c'mon guys...it's Alaska!! Yeah the summers are nice but what about the winters?? Any place where you have to have an engine block heater and plug your car in when you go into a restaurant so it doesn't freeze solid....and no women......can't be a good deal.

Second, yes new hires are going to the MD-11. A heavy pilot with international experience will have no problem. It's not that hard of a jet to fly.

They are also hiring management pilots right off the street into the LEFT seat (No prior MD-11 experience). Then making a check airman out of them in a few months.

How would you like to be a captain getting a checkride from a dude that has only been with your company 6 months....let alone a MD-11 pilot and part -121 captain for only 6 months? Those are the guys I'd be afraid of not the experienced guy who goes to the right seat.

 

[Prop2Jet]

What does it take to get on with UPS? Mins, knowing someone etc... give me your best explanation so I can start planning on a future with them- if possible!

Thanks
P2J