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MCBA thoughts

Club ORD FO

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I'm surprised you are taking this so well, considering your posts before the MCBA was released. What this what you had heard we were getting or were you expecting worse?


I'm pretty sure all captains accidentally got a raise. There's no more rule about dropping a year on the pay scales. Year 15 means year 15.

And I'm sure about 27.9: "[FONT=&quot]A Challenger 300 Non-Red Label PIC that is more senior to a Domestic RedLabel crewmember on the Domestic Red Label Aircraft shall receive, in addition to hisnormal rate of pay, the differential between the Domestic Red Label rate of pay and hiscorresponding daily rate (or calculated daily rate for a fixed schedule) for that day worked. "

[/FONT]Does that mean any regular line captain who flies on a red label tail, and is senior to the most junior Red Label captain (TC), he will get red label pay for that day? Or does it only apply to captain on captain pairings, when one is red label and one is not? I'm thinking it's my first interpretation.

So between the year raise, the 3% that is coming in Jan, and the bonus for flying red label tail, the CL300 captains did fairly well.
 

Praetorian

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On the new ISL you guys will now dominate on the PBS. That's at least 100 more per day and then some.

Guys like me will end up forced to fixed and lose significant amounts of pay but I'm not in a place to run all my numbers.

Remember, the schedule bids will be done by fleet. Since the vast majourity of former Flops pilots are in the Phenom we will be competing among ourselves for schedule bids.

Also, most of us are maxed out on pay, with over 17 years in service. A problem this MCBA didn't address, so due to inflation, each year we lose money.

Further, by my math the PBS is only worth about $2,500 annually for a 17+ year guy working 16 days per month, not sure anyone will bid it. We like knowing our schedules six months out.

I think your beloved PBS is safe????
 

Club ORD FO

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Remember, the schedule bids will be done by fleet. Since the vast majourity of former Flops pilots are in the Phenom we will be competing among ourselves for schedule bids.

Also, most of us are maxed out on pay, with over 17 years in service. A problem this MCBA didn't address, so due to inflation, each year we lose money.

Further, by my math the PBS is only worth about $2,500 annually for a 17+ year guy working 16 days per month, not sure anyone will bid it. We like knowing our schedules six months out.

I think your beloved PBS is safe????

17 year Phenom on PBS:
14 days per bid (182 days per year): $114159.5
15 Days per BP (195 days per year): $122313.75
16 days per BP (208 days per year): $130468

ON the 8/7 it's $108,211.81.

All that correct? Plus now you'll get the hourly overtime after 12 hours. That's be a few grand a year
 

BE40Driver

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Two questions, Are the transfered FO pilots that were pay protected with PIC pay from Flops now going to SIC pay? And when they moved out of the Lear for larger A/C are they seat locked for 24 or 39 months?
 

Praetorian

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17 year Phenom on PBS:
14 days per bid (182 days per year): $114159.5
15 Days per BP (195 days per year): $122313.75
16 days per BP (208 days per year): $130468

ON the 8/7 it's $108,211.81.

All that correct? Plus now you'll get the hourly overtime after 12 hours. That's be a few grand a year

That sounds great, but where are you getting that 208 days per year number? Right now we are working 16 days per month and 194 days per year.
 
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Club ORD FO

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Flexbid has 13 bid periods per year (28 days each). So 16 days per bid period is 208 per year. That's the most they can make you work. You can volunteer for 18 per BP
 

Praetorian

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Flexbid has 13 bid periods per year (28 days each). So 16 days per bid period is 208 per year. That's the most they can make you work. You can volunteer for 18 per BP

So it's just a more pay for more work situation and we effectively got a zero pay raise out of this, if we work the same number of days per year.

Now I know why management fought for the PBS.
 

Imissmypilot

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Club I'm taking it better because I see this was a complete and utter railroad job. In a strange way it is comforting to realize the company had this in the bag (seems like a secret meeting had to take place) and it's not that the union was weak, one sided or ambivalent. No instead it's clear the company is corrupt and this arbritrator at best questionable in his ability.

As for the rest I'll have to answer after a few more hours of abuse. I really hope I get the opportunity to pull the plug at 14 today and watch them scramble.

BTW still pissed our leadership knew about the Cabo invite and didn't march right back to Gwin. I'm just hoping I don't know the big picture and their strategy takes this is to account.
 

Club ORD FO

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So it's just a more pay for more work situation and we effectively got a zero pay raise out of this, if we work the same number of days per year.

Now I know why management fought for the PBS.

If you do 7/7 on PBS, isn't that a $6000 per year increase?

No saying you could get 7/7 on PBS, but as an example...

- - - Updated - - -

BTW still pissed our leadership knew about the Cabo invite and didn't march right back to Gwin. I'm just hoping I don't know the big picture and their strategy takes this is to account.

I had heard about the Cabo invite. I asked about it and was told that the arbitrator brought it to the attention of the union, and he agreed not to go unless the union could also ago. Of course KR didn't extend the invite. So that was that. If he agreed not to go, what else could the union do? Demand a new arbitrator? That would have taken months, and then KR wild invite that guy anyway. As far as judge Gwen goes, I'm not sure he could have done anything about it.
 

jetwash

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As for the rest I'll have to answer after a few more hours of abuse. I really hope I get the opportunity to pull the plug at 14 today and watch them scramble.
.

I usually get tired at around 11 or 12 hours then I pull the plug and sleep in until late morning making sure I am well rested. If I require 20 hours off to be safe the next day I take it and just tell them in the e mail when to put me back on duty.

just a simple one line e mail and you can rest if you are tired, no more worry about getting called in.
 
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jetwash

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Two questions, Are the transfered FO pilots that were pay protected with PIC pay from Flops now going to SIC pay? And when they moved out of the Lear for larger A/C are they seat locked for 24 or 39 months?

Did you ever find an answer to these question?
I cound not find anything about pay protection in the MCBA. Unless I missed something.
 

el raton

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I usually get tired at around 11 or 12 hours then I pull the plug and sleep in until late morning making sure I am well rested. If I require 20 hours off to be safe the next day I take it and just tell them in the e mail when to put me back on duty.

just a simple one line e mail and you can rest if you are tired, no more worry about getting called in.

While the rest of us have to carry your lazy azz. I’m not against a fatigue call, but you sir, abuse the system.
 

jetwash

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While the rest of us have to carry your lazy azz. I’m not against a fatigue call, but you sir, abuse the system.

I think 12 hours is a fair work day for what I get paid.

Nobody is asked to carry my azz. That is why we have the Red Label program, they are all volunteers and are paid to work 14+ hours a day. They get paid twice as much as me why shouldn't they work twice as long?
 

TexasChallenger

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So, it looks like my Lear friends are going to take it in the shorts. For example: A current 10 Lear CA gets paid $616//day. $616 x 17ish days per month = $125,000. If this same Lear CA is forced into a 7/7 or 8/7, he would go down to $83,000 or $89,000, respectfully. If he’s lucky to hold PBS, then his daily rate is $599, a modest decrease, but a decrease nonetheless. What happened to “no one should lose anything?” Sounds like ObamaCare to me.
 

jetwash

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So, it looks like my Lear friends are going to take it in the shorts. For example: A current 10 Lear CA gets paid $616//day. $616 x 17ish days per month = $125,000. If this same Lear CA is forced into a 7/7 or 8/7, he would go down to $83,000 or $89,000, respectfully. If he’s lucky to hold PBS, then his daily rate is $599, a modest decrease, but a decrease nonetheless. What happened to “no one should lose anything?” Sounds like ObamaCare to me.


Was there not something regarding not losing a year when you calculate pay rates, so you actually stay the same.

Only is you go to fixed schedule 8/7 7/7 do you get a cut in pay.
 

John MClain

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So, it looks like my Lear friends are going to take it in the shorts. For example: A current 10 Lear CA gets paid $616//day. $616 x 17ish days per month = $125,000. If this same Lear CA is forced into a 7/7 or 8/7, he would go down to $83,000 or $89,000, respectfully. If he’s lucky to hold PBS, then his daily rate is $599, a modest decrease, but a decrease nonetheless. What happened to “no one should lose anything?” Sounds like ObamaCare to me.


It's confusing but if you read the Scheduling Section carefully, you'll see that no one can be "Forced" on to a Fixed schedule. The company is required to make "Available" a percentage of both 7&7 and 8&7 lines but no one has to bid them and there is no limit on PBS. Therefor it is feasibly possible for there to be no one flying a fixed schedule and ALL pilots flying PBS schedules. Which is what is preferred by management and the reason you see such a HUGE disparity between daily rates for both fixed and PBS schedules.

It was almost comical to hear management claim they were offering "choices" for the pilots regarding schedules. I like many, was hoping to work a fixed 7&7 but a 25k pay cut isn't a "choice' for me. So it's PBS for me unfortunately.
 

Club ORD FO

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It's confusing but if you read the Scheduling Section carefully, you'll see that no one can be "Forced" on to a Fixed schedule. The company is required to make "Available" a percentage of both 7&7 and 8&7 lines but no one has to bid them and there is no limit on PBS. Therefor it is feasibly possible for there to be no one flying a fixed schedule and ALL pilots flying PBS schedules. Which is what is preferred by management and the reason you see such a HUGE disparity between daily rates for both fixed and PBS schedules.

It was almost comical to hear management claim they were offering "choices" for the pilots regarding schedules. I like many, was hoping to work a fixed 7&7 but a 25k pay cut isn't a "choice' for me. So it's PBS for me unfortunately.

Not exactly. It says nobody can be forced onto a 7/7. It doesn't say the same thing about 8/7.

The contract is not clear about the split of fixed vs PBS. Can the company make it anything they want? Is fixed limited to a certain percentage of available lines? It's a hole in the contract Mr Fishgold overlooked.

As for lear captains, if they stay on PBS they got a raise, if they move to fixed it's a pay cut. I don't actually mind fixed schedules paying less, as that would be the trade off for knowing your schedule in advance and being locked into something. But I don't think it should be THAT much less.
 

doh

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While the rest of us have to carry your lazy azz. I’m not against a fatigue call, but you sir, abuse the system.
If you make half of Red label pay, you should absolutely refuse to do more than half the work. In fact, you should be doing everything in your power to make it more than twice as expensive for management to continue this unethical behavior. That co****cking wookie would have you believe 84% are participating in red label. Unless you are getting ALL the benefits of red label, you are not participating at all. But he is a gutless, cowardly, backstabbing liar, so you wouldn’t expect anything more from him...
 

Imissmypilot

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I think 12 hours is a fair work day for what I get paid.

Nobody is asked to carry my azz. That is why we have the Red Label program, they are all volunteers and are paid to work 14+ hours a day. They get paid twice as much as me why shouldn't they work twice as long?

If you make half of Red label pay, you should absolutely refuse to do more than half the work. In fact, you should be doing everything in your power to make it more than twice as expensive for management to continue this unethical behavior.

One excellent cohesive point from 2 posters who are expressing the thoughts of 80% of our workforce (even windbags, one of the company's own chosen highest FoKs who testified along with Wookie against all of us for the company to get this mcba).

I suggest we all simply understand that since this is the contract management and only management wanted, we respectfully and wholeheartedly follow it to the letter of the law.

And where there is ambiguity you must take the conservative approach of protecting their investment (oddly enough that would be the pilots in this case) and do what will result in the least amount of wear and tear possible.


That's not lazy Azz el raton. That is giving Kenn exactly and only what he asked for. There will he a day when instead of getting awards, the rest of the world understands what his employees already know. He is a fundraiser with an incredible knack for subterfuge who will destroy everything he touched.
 

Club ORD FO

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IMISS, just curious, are you ok with union leadership bidding for red label positions now?
 
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