MaxBlast feeling the LUV!

[funnyman12]

Airtran voted down a TA in 2007 that had Captains at $286/hr. The work rules were subpar. Then oil spiked, ALPA came on property, strike vote in May 2010, merger announcement on 9/27. The merger prompt3d us to accept a slightly subpar contract so we could focus on the SLI.

 

[Secret Squirrel]

Airtran voted down a TA in 2007 that had Captains at $286/hr. The work rules were subpar. Then oil spiked, ALPA came on property, strike vote in May 2010, merger announcement on 9/27. The merger prompt3d us to accept a slightly subpar contract so we could focus on the SLI.

$286 an Hour? Wow, the work rules must have sucked.

 

[dicko]

$286 an Hour? Wow, the work rules must have sucked.

Required to fly naked wearing an iron maiden and a velvet codpiece.

 

[Secret Squirrel]

Required to fly naked wearing an iron maiden and a velvet codpiece.

Plus $286 and hour? I don't see the down side. And we would have gotten rid of the hat sooner!

 

[dicko]

Plus $286 and hour? I don't see the down side. And we would have gotten rid of the hat sooner!

I'm smelling what you're smoking my furry friend. It was going to be my only yes vote at AirTran.

 

[waveflyer]

Can you guys please be fair with the numbers that were being earned before the purchase.

After five plus years of negotiations, a strike vote passed by like 97% of the AT pilots several months prior, the purchase created the agreement you now have in place. Saying it was just some magical coincidence is a classic sense of denial. AT and its pilots weren't even close to a TA before then.

The pay raises AT got were provided by SWA. You likely would either be working for about the same wages or not working because of a strike.

Thank you-
Anything else is naive, self serving, revisionist history

 

[funnyman12]

Ooopps $186...

 

[redflyer65]

Can you guys please be fair with the numbers that were being earned before the purchase.

After five plus years of negotiations, a strike vote passed by like 97% of the AT pilots several months prior, the purchase created the agreement you now have in place. Saying it was just some magical coincidence is a classic sense of denial. AT and its pilots weren't even close to a TA before then.

The pay raises AT got were provided by SWA. You likely would either be working for about the same wages or not working because of a strike.

Exactly Dash. The AirTran guys were grinding it out at 152/hr for Captains and 79/hr for First Officers.

Here are the payrates at the time of purchase..

http://www.aviationinterviews.com/pilot/airlinepayrates.html


PS..You can also see the Southwest rates on there too. 214/hr and 150/hr respectively.

 

[Ty Webb]

Can you guys please be fair with the numbers that were being earned before the purchase.

After five plus years of negotiations, a strike vote passed by like 97% of the AT pilots several months prior, the purchase created the agreement you now have in place. Saying it was just some magical coincidence is a classic sense of denial. AT and its pilots weren't even close to a TA before then.

The pay raises AT got were provided by SWA. You likely would either be working for about the same wages or not working because of a strike.

This type of blathering is quite revealing, regarding some SWA pilots' knowledge of the CBA negotiations process . . . . or lack thereof.

Let's just put it this way . . . . You are a -300 who thinks they are a A380. :laugh:

SWAPA really has their work cut out for them.

 

[madjack]

Hey Ty, the guys on here are just telling you how the SWA side feels about what went down: You had a substandard contract (PCLs own words), you were in negotiations with your mgmt, there was a strike vote...along comes SWA and the contract gets done...sure the improvements that you gained were the result of hard work by ALPA, but the deal got done because SWA made an offer to purchase, otherwise you might still be in negotiations with your mgmt right?? We just won't ever know...kind of like would SL9 have passed an AAI pilot vote??

They may not be exactly how you (or other AAI Pilots in the know) see it, but the above summary do appear to describe the events that transpired.

 

[StopNTSing]

Come on, now . . . . Do we really have to clarify this?

AAI CA --> SWA FO = $30K pay CUT

AAI FO --> SWA FO = $30K pay RAISE (or more)

Yes we do. Show me your math to get those numbers, Ty.....oh, and using "our ALPA Sec-Tres said so" won't cut it, BTW.

Then I'll show you my math that would seem to indicate otherwise. (Hint: Rates tell only half the story when determining actual pay)

 

[Dash Power]

This type of blathering is quite revealing, regarding some SWA pilots' knowledge of the CBA negotiations process . . . . or lack thereof.

Let's just put it this way . . . . You are a -300 who thinks they are a A380. :laugh:

SWAPA really has their work cut out for them.

Talk about blathering.

I don't even know what any of this has to do with the point.

If there is any work to be cut out it is trying to communicate with retards like you.:laugh:

 

[Ty Webb]

Hey Ty, the guys on here are just telling you how the SWA side feels about what went down: You had a substandard contract (PCLs own words), you were in negotiations with your mgmt, there was a strike vote...along comes SWA and the contract gets done...sure the improvements that you gained were the result of hard work by ALPA, but the deal got done because SWA made an offer to purchase, otherwise you might still be in negotiations with your mgmt right?? We just won't ever know...kind of like would SL9 have passed an AAI pilot vote??

They may not be exactly how you (or other AAI Pilots in the know) see it, but the above summary do appear to describe the events that transpired.

No, that's how you see it. Big difference.

I'm done spending my time trying to explain it to you guys. Ask me again in five years, if you still haven't figured it out by then.

 

[madjack]

Won't matter in five years...doesn't really matter now...but perceptions are what count...unfortunately...

 

[Sy-bill]

No, that's how you see it. Big difference.

I'm done spending my time trying to explain it to you guys. Ask me again in five years, if you still haven't figured it out by then.

This guy has always been a self righteous blowhard with no substance.

Since he has now realized he has been bought and now owned he has made a feeble attempt at getting along.

Nice try Rich.

 

[slaquer5]

This type of blathering is quite revealing, regarding some SWA pilots' knowledge of the CBA negotiations process . . . . or lack thereof.

Let's just put it this way . . . . You are a -300 who thinks they are a A380. :laugh:

SWAPA really has their work cut out for them.

Why is it everyone, SWA pilots included, put down the 300

The 300 needs love to

 

[Just thinking]

Because the 300/500 is old and tired. Seats suck. A/C sucks. Cruising at .74 sucks. Weight of aircraft has increased with each and every patch required for doubling/tripling and quadrupling at the stress points and ramming spots from the catering trucks and lavatory carts etc. Need to love it all the way to the desert.

 

[Ty Webb]

This guy has always been a self righteous blowhard with no substance.

Since he has now realized he has been bought and now owned he has made a feeble attempt at getting along.

Nice try Rich.

Ah, Sy-bill . . . All the charm of a trucker's 'rhoid cushion. :erm:

The name isn't Rich . . . . I'm surprised you haven't figured that out, since you've been stalking me on here for the past 8 years, you avatar-stealing rectal polyp. :laugh:

.

 

[DUBLINFLYER]

300/500 = require real pilots with real flying skills - no button pushers and know twirlers

 

[Sy-bill]

Ah, Sy-bill . . . All the charm of a trucker's 'rhoid cushion. :erm:

The name isn't Rich . . . . I'm surprised you haven't figured that out, since you've been stalking me on here for the past 8 years, you avatar-stealing rectal polyp. :laugh:

.

Stalking you? Get over yourself.

Eight years can be considered a neurotic grudge about something as insignificant as an avatar.

Isn't name calling something more of a grade school mentality? Sure it is.

I may have your name wrong, but the SWA people certainly do not.

Good luck staying on the outside.

 

[Ty Webb]

300/500 = require real pilots with real flying skills - no button pushers and knob twirlers

You sound like quite a knob-twirler yourself.

 

[Ty Webb]

Stalking you? Get over yourself.

Eight years can be considered a neurotic grudge about something as insignificant as an avatar.

Isn't name calling something more of a grade school mentality? Sure it is.

I may have your name wrong, but the SWA people certainly do not.

Good luck staying on the outside.

I see your sense of humor hasn't improved any.

Sucks to be you. :laugh:

.

 

[Dash Power]

I see your sense of humor hasn't improved any.

Sucks to be you. :laugh:

.

Sy-bill,

If you are going to engage get your facts straight.

Rich is Lear70

David is Ty.

:laugh:

 

[madjack]

Oddly enough I don't perceive posters like Ty, Dicko, Lear70 (in the day), Freightdog, dc9Capt etc as particularily anti-SWA, just very pro-AAI...which was a great airline, but as we all know that is why it was purchased by SWA...the fumbling of the integration by AAI/ALPA and SWAPA is just a fall-out of mgmts desire to get the ISL ironed out sans arbitration, which was a homerun for the company (could you imagine if we were still dealing with an arbitrated solution, ala USAIR/AMWest on TOP of trying to do everything else)... there will always be a subset of pilots who feel that they were treated unfairly...on both sides...I say we are all just numbers on a list subject to the decisions of mgmt, but on the flip side we enjoy one of the best UNION jobs in America...we are all very fortunate to work at a strong company...

 

[fam62c]

Yes we do. Show me your math to get those numbers, Ty.....oh, and using "our ALPA Sec-Tres said so" won't cut it, BTW.

Then I'll show you my math that would seem to indicate otherwise. (Hint: Rates tell only half the story when determining actual pay)

Based on the numbers I'm looking at I don't think the average Joe AT CA who bids a line and flies it is going to take anything anywhere near a 30% pay reduction if they fly the same number of days as a SW FO. The senior CA's will get hurt the most and the CA's on reserve will probably do better.

I think in too many cases the guys who are doing a lot of extra and premium flying at AT are comparing their W2's to either guarantee or a normal line with no extra days picked up at SW. You can't compare 18 days off with 14 or 15 and call that a fair comparison. Look at a CA 50% up the AT CA list who bids a line and flies it as bid compared to that same pilot as a SW FO flying the same number of days.

Don't get me wrong, I think the AT CA's should have had their rates protected at the greater of AT CA or SW FO so nobody loses money and I hate to see anybody on either side have to lose their base but when it comes to what the typical pilot gets paid there is a lot of bad information.

 

[redflyer65]

Sy-bill,

If you are going to engage get your facts straight.

Rich is Lear70

David is Ty.

:laugh:

I had completely forgotten about Ty being outed.

 

[humveedriver]

AAI CA --> SWA FO = $30K pay CUT

AAI FO --> SWA FO = $30K pay RAISE (or more)

I'm not sure who is taking a 30k pay cut. Is that number based on comparing 15 year AT CA to 12 year SWA FO? Maybe on paper that works out. It's hard to get a straight answer from anyone on this, because some senior AT guys are killing it while others are more straight time flyers. Since I hadn't bothered to figure it out I compared my last two most similar months at the two companies (12 year longevity, couple months senior to Ty ).

March 2013 AT 737 Capt ($168.16 hr)
88.5 credit hours
15 days off (31 day month)
Take home: $ 9,445.72

August 2013 SWA 737 FO ($132.50 hr)
99.95 TFP
17 Days off (31 day month)
Take home: $ 8,735.35

$ 710.17 monthly difference, everything straight time. If I converted my two 3 day trips to 4 day trips, resulting in 15 days off, I would take home more. This includes 11% 401k withholding, wife plus kid on medical and the standard mutual aid stuff. Because I no longer commute I gained about two full days off monthly back. Plus no more hotels. I'm not disputing anyone's math. I just want to give the folks who are transitioning some real numbers.

 

[Ty Webb]

I'm not sure who is taking a 30k pay cut. Is that number based on comparing 15 year AT CA to 12 year SWA FO? Maybe on paper that works out. It's hard to get a straight answer from anyone on this, because some senior AT guys are killing it while others are more straight time flyers. Since I hadn't bothered to figure it out I compared my last two most similar months at the two companies (12 year longevity, couple months senior to Ty ).

March 2013 AT 737 Capt ($168.16 hr)
88.5 credit hours
15 days off (31 day month)
Take home: $ 9,445.72

August 2013 SWA 737 FO ($132.50 hr)
99.95 TFP
17 Days off (31 day month)
Take home: $ 8,735.35

$ 710.17 monthly difference, everything straight time. If I converted my two 3 day trips to 4 day trips, resulting in 15 days off, I would take home more. This includes 11% 401k withholding, wife plus kid on medical and the standard mutual aid stuff. Because I no longer commute I gained about two full days off monthly back. Plus no more hotels. I'm not disputing anyone's math. I just want to give the folks who are transitioning some real numbers.

Therein seems to be the difference for many.

The exception to this will be the guys who live in a SWA base, and will no longer commute, and can pick up premium trips, but that is not the case for most of us.

My easy commute (1 hour) to a commutable line is going to change in the opposite direction- a two-leg commute to an uncommutable line.

Not bitching, but that's the reality of it.

Regds,
Ty

 

[humveedriver]

I bet you get way more premium than I do commuting. The guys who average 150 TFP travel the system to get it (at our seniority). Won't Panama City to a HOU commute work for you (one leg, non stop). Look at the trips too, when you come over. Sometimes you can give a turn away and make uncommutable.. commutable.

As former DFW commuter, I know exactly what your facing. I made the necessary adjustments and made it work (different airlines, airports). I still look outside of my base for good opportunities.

 

[Ty Webb]

Won't Panama City to a HOU commute work for you (one leg, non stop).

Nah . . . That's a 3+ hour drive to a 2 hour flight.

Most guys in the Panhandle are driving 3 hrs to MSY and then catching a 1 hour flight to HOU. Still pretty lousy way to start and end a trip.

Glad it's working out for you . . . . you DFW former-commuters deserve it, after what you went through.