Mandatory Retirement Age at 91K/135 Operations

[realityman]

NO AIRLINE IN THE WORLD ALLOWS THIS!!

So? What does this have to do with the fractionals, or even the coporate world? Would you care to compare the fractionals' safety record to the airlines? How many fatalities in the airline world? How many int he fractional world? I realize the fractionals have been in existence for far less time than the airlines, so heck, just compare the safety records for the past 20 years. Whose is better?

The corporate world may actually have a slightly worse safety record (in terms of percentage of fatalities/number of flights flown), but can you prove the majority of these accidents involved older pilots? I don't have the numbers at my fingertips, but I'll take the bet that older pilots, and even older pilot/older pilot pairings don't factor in to an inordinate number of the accidents in the corporate world.

Again, until someone can come up with SOLID PROOF, not this heresay crap, that older pilots are a real problem, it's simply age discrimination.

Hawkered, I'll put good money on the possibility that you've flown with younger pilots too that weren't so hot. But I guess you won't mention them because it'd defeat the point you're trying to make.

Show me SOLID PROOF and I'll get behind getting the older guys out of the cockpit! Problem for you "oldster-bashers", is that I'm pretty sure that proof simply doesn't exist. Maybe their mental functions are somewhat slower than prime, but it sure doesn't seem to really be causing an unusual number of safety problems, or accidents, to justify taking them out of the cockpit.

 

[shanes123]

So you think old drivers are safer? Insurance companies do..They give them lower rates..But when u see one driving down the road and the only reason they didnt collide with you is cause you were paying attention and avoided them. Does that make them a better driver? Your are arguing statistics and they can be manipulited anyway you care to manipulite them..Weak argument

 

[av8trinabarrel]

Wait... now hold on just a second.

You're saying that experience and well-honed intuition are valuable in the cockpit?

Now that's just crazy talk.

A couple of glasses of wine will do that to ya!

 

[realityman]

So you think old drivers are safer? Insurance companies do..They give them lower rates..But when u see one driving down the road and the only reason they didnt collide with you is cause you were paying attention and avoided them. Does that make them a better driver? Your are arguing statistics and they can be manipulited anyway you care to manipulite them..Weak argument

Sorry Shane, yours is the weak argument. Again, nothing but heresay. "I had to avoid a dangerous older driver, therefore all older drivers are unsafe.". I learned back in high school that not all squares are rectangles.
You've NEVER had to avoid a collision with a younger driver?! Really? I have. Many times in my life. By your argument, younger drivers pose a significant safety hazard (and by younger, I mean anyone under 60, since that seems to be our talking point).

But that's not the point. The point is, some on here would like to say that older pilots are less safe, end of story. I'm saying there's absolutely NO DATA, that support that conclusion. If anything, I can probably pull up far more accidents that happened with people under 60 at the controls than with those over 60.

Your argument seems to be: Well, if you quit looking at what's actually happening, you'll discover older pilots are dangerous.
Ummm, riiiighhhht.

Yes, I've flown with older pilots who really needed to just hang it up. But I've flown with younger pilots that I could say the same about. Fortunately, ALL of these people were not representative of their respective age groups. The vast majority of the older folks I've flown with have been great, and same for the younger ones. To ban an entire group because of the actions of a few bad ones is ridiculous. How about we simply reform the medical exam process, and maybe the testing process (ie. checkrides and such) to weed out the bad ones instead of kicking our most experienced pilots out of the flightdeck.

 

[Hawkered]

How many crashes have you had in aircraft? I'm just wondering? Should you be driving or flying?

My wife was nearly killed by an eighty year old driver that crossed the centerline and hit her head on. The old lady was also in a 25 mph zone doing at least 50!

No, that senior citizen will NOT drive again.

 

[Helmsalee]

Shames (pun intended),
As you said, insurance companies give older drivers better rates. Why is that? It's not out of respect for their elders, but dollars and cents. Historically they don't have as many accidents (read claims). No one is saying that there are no bad drivers or accidents in that age group, just fewer. Perhaps experience and judgment gained over time can make up for the difference in reaction times.

Remember,
A good pilot is one that uses his superior judgment so that he does not have to use his superior skills.

 

[realityman]

How many crashes have you had in aircraft? I'm just wondering? Should you be driving or flying?

My wife was nearly killed by an eighty year old driver that crossed the centerline and hit her head on. The old lady was also in a 25 mph zone doing at least 50!

No, that senior citizen will NOT drive again.

I am very sorry to hear about the accident involving your wife. I truly hope she has since recovered completely.

That said, I didn't say there aren't any poor elderly drivers. And I never said there aren't any poor elderly pilots. But what would your opinion be if your wife had been hit by a 35-year-old man who was driving fast (I somehow doubt the elderly have a monopoly on speeding. In fact, I'd say the opposite is more often true: the elderly tend to drive pretty slow.) and became distracted while tuning the car radio? Would it be, "That's it!! I'm lobbying to take all people in their 30's off the road!".

All I keep asking for is some concrete proof that older pilots (those over 60) cause more safety problems than the rest of the pilot demographic. And a few pilots on FI exchanging stories about bad older pilots they've flown with isn't proof. I could just as easily start a thread about bad pilots under 30 I've flown with and I'm sure everyone would also have a story or two to contribute.

PS- I've had no crashes in my life in aircraft or cars. Just lucky. Or cautious. Maybe both.

 

[netjetwife]

Reality, good job keeping things real...and fair.

Hawkered...scary experience for your wife/family. I do hope she recovered fully.

Helmsalee, good point and thanks for the support on the Flex thread. I don't think it's a coincidence that complaints about my posting here always go up when a pilotgroup decides to organize.

 

[o2bflyn]

All I keep asking for is some concrete proof that older pilots (those over 60) cause more safety problems than the rest of the pilot demographic. And a few pilots on FI exchanging stories about bad older pilots they've flown with isn't proof. I could just as easily start a thread about bad pilots under 30 I've flown with and I'm sure everyone would also have a story or two to contribute.

I don't think there really is any concrete proof. This is just a classic example of a few bad apples making it look bad for a whole group. Hell, the same idea could be said for the worlwide pilot population.....in some peoples eyes, pilots look like money hungry, lazy SOBs....that's not to say we all are, but a few bad appples out there make it look like we are.

 

[popgoesbubble]

I just read the pilot of that King air that died was 68 years old and had just got his medical back. Between this and the 80 year old pilot that put his Cessna 402 into a house in FLL I think this is just the Ammo the Fed's are looking for to stick there nose into the 91/135 retirement age. Trust me with all the government infringement going on lately you know there gonna do the same to us at the Charter end. besides wasn't there a thread on here about a supreme court judge looking to ram age 65 down part 135 operators?