Make The Call People

[SkiFishFly]

Let's take your argument to the extreme. If France or Nigeria or Mexico decided to let pilots fly without any kind of medical screening whatsoever, would you say that the US should also allow it here? In other words, if France or Nigeria or Mexico allowed epileptics, the mentally ill, the handicapped, the legally blind, etc to fly should the US reciprocate by also eliminating medical qualifications for flying? Should US law and policy always mirror that of France or Nigeria or Mexico? Heck, Canada and Belgium have legalized gay marriage. Does that mean the US needs to legalize it here as well in the interest of fairness to homosexuals? Since when have you been okay with other nations dictating law and policy to us?

Once again you miss the point.
If those countries want to allow any of the above within their country - that is up to them and their citizens. Our Govenrment should not allow them to do it in our country.

Right now OUR Government is going to allow non citizens to operate in OUR country up to age 65. At the same time our govenrment is going to prohibit us citizens from doing the same past age 60. That is the problem.

 

[ferlo]

I for one know a captain who was forced to retire at 60, guess what? No medical coverage, and his regional career and no pension (we should all be in the no pension club) made him search for a career for 5 years. So now he finds himself driving a truck in northern minnesota to pay the bills. I do not want to have to be forced to do that. So I am all for having our retirement age be 60. More pilots should look beyond the greed of a higher (QUICKER) seniortiy climb with a stalled changed age 60 rule. Yes, thats right, its your short term greed! Can other professionals work to 65? does the government give us benies at 60? No, this age 60 rule was to lower pilot costs and pilots agreed because of great pensions.........we no longer have this.

I was not happy that ALPA fought the change. Especially with euro pilots who were 65 flying in our airspace.

Your "no pension" captain buddy can Kiss my ass.

He had 6 decades to figure out how to care for himself and his family and he was too stupid to understand the obvious fact that an AIRLINE wasn't going to do it FOR him. I sincerely doubt an additional five years would have kept him out of a truck cab.

An Airline owes you money for work you've performed in the prior two weeks. They won't raise your children, they won't pay your bills in retirement, they won't pay your medical, and they won't bend over backwards or go out of pocket to accommodate an inflated self image because a pilot thinks he's "special".

Right or wrong, contracts are worthless, pull your head out of your ass, and solve your own problems...guess what, your CEO doesn't give a sh*t if you live or die. That's your problem. Deal with it.

 

[crxpilot]

I think we should all start lobbying for age 55. Are you going to deal with it?

Too many ex-wives eh? :laugh:

I know, I know, it's not about that, it's about "discrimination" right???? LOL!

I am not "old", I dont have "ex-wives", however, I would like the oppotunity to fill in the gap in my later years to make some more $$$ if I chose to go that route. If people cant see the writing on the wall, its a shame. We have moved into an international economy/governement. Age 65 is just another way that we will blend in with the rest of them whether we want to or not. As long as we belong to the United Nations you can bank on that.

 

[PurpleInMEM]

I am not "old", I dont have "ex-wives", however, I would like the oppotunity to fill in the gap in my later years to make some more $$$ if I chose to go that route. If people cant see the writing on the wall, its a shame. We have moved into an international economy/governement. Age 65 is just another way that we will blend in with the rest of them whether we want to or not. As long as we belong to the United Nations you can bank on that.

So all those other local area rules and exceptions to the ICAO regulations will be unified too? Well when that happens, we can go with the age 65 thing. My guess is that there will forever be a huge book of exceptions, by country, to the ICAO regulations.

A sovereign nation has the ability to TELL its citizens what the rules are. They do it all the time. This isn't about fairness, it's about business and the fact that companies at the bottom can't hire enough guys at slave wages so they want to keep guys longer. I fully expect that my company will attack my pension multiplier and my B fund contribution after this passes. It will do nothing to improve my quality of life and in essence will force me to work until 65 or whatever ridiculous age they come up with in the future.

I've said it a thousand times already. I do not understand how a pilot would VOLUNTARILY support any change that would prolong working. One of the reasons I got into this was because I knew I could get OUT EARLIER than the rest of the working schlubs.

Why do you want to work longer? I guess I'll never get it.

 

[Deerkiller]

I for one know a captain who was forced to retire at 60, guess what? No medical coverage, and his regional career and no pension (we should all be in the no pension club) made him search for a career for 5 years. So now he finds himself driving a truck in northern minnesota to pay the bills. I do not want to have to be forced to do that. So I am all for having our retirement age be 60. More pilots should look beyond the greed of a higher (QUICKER) seniortiy climb with a stalled changed age 60 rule. Yes, thats right, its your short term greed! Can other professionals work to 65? does the government give us benies at 60? No, this age 60 rule was to lower pilot costs and pilots agreed because of great pensions.........we no longer have this.

I was not happy that ALPA fought the change. Especially with euro pilots who were 65 flying in our airspace.

Quicker?!?!?

I would submit that I'm moving up the seniority list like I'm supposed to. If I'm moving quicker, it's b/c someone left early.

 

[skypine69]

If the age 65 rule came about with a requirement that all the airlines restored the pensions that would allow pilots to retire at age 60, i wonder how many would stay that extra five years?

 

[CF34-3B1]

If the age 65 rule came about with a requirement that all the airlines restored the pensions that would allow pilots to retire at age 60, i wonder how many would stay that extra five years?

About the same number that would stay if they could only fly as FOs past age 60

 

[Nindiri]

Why should I care what age somebody else retires at? I'm quite content to worry about my own career without telling somebody else how to run their lives.

 

[humuakalaka]

Why should I care what age somebody else retires at? I'm quite content to worry about my own career without telling somebody else how to run their lives.

Wow. You're so very progressive in your thinking. Live and let live. You're open to anything and everything. I admire your open-minded liberal-ness. You don't want to infringe on anyone else's rights. Very cool. You probably don't have a problem with homosexual marriage, neo-nazis burning crosses on their own property, drug users, etc, etc, etc. Who are you to tell somebody else how to run their lives, right? Wife-beater? Who are you to tell him how to run his life? Thief? Who are you tell him how to run his life?

Sorry to point this out to you, but you tread all up and down other people's rights every day simply by virtue of the fact that you live in a society. Other people walk all over your rights too for the same reason. It's all part of the social contract we have bought into. It's a necessary part of life. Speeding is dangerous, so we have speed limits even though they essentially dictate to you how to run that part of your life. You don't want other people to murder or rape you so you support laws that outlaw that kind of stuff even though that means by doing so you are attempting to run that part of murderer's and rapist's lives. How dare you?

So, as progressive as you are, you still do try to run other people's lives. Why should you care about age 65? Age 65 affects everyone in this career field. Some people will reap a windfall. Others will be dealt a fairly large financial blow. Age 65 will impact upgrade times which impacts lifetime earnings, ability to retire earlier, and quality of life for a large number of pilots. Age 65 is not a win-win situation. If age 65 was about simple age discrimination, I'd be completely onboard with you but it's not simple age discrimination and I'm not onboard with you.

 

[humuakalaka]

Double post

 

[Nindiri]

You do have a point. Next time some wife-beating gay Neo-Nazi burns a cross on my lawn, I'm going to have to insist that he be forced to retire.

Getting back to reality, though, we have speed limits because it's dangerous to other drivers if I drive 150 mph. On the other hand, there is no evidence that 65 year old pilots are dangerous, so I have no interest in sticking my nose in their personal business.

 

[Ronnieflies737]

I for one would like to thank the APA for running the ad in the USA Today, They have succeeded in prompting me to make the call. And I will many times. And I will tell them to pass age 65!!! Get over it.

 

[Deerkiller]

I for one would like to thank the APA for running the ad in the USA Today, They have succeeded in prompting me to make the call. And I will many times. And I will tell them to pass age 65!!! Get over it.

Oh...well since you said so, I'll just lay down my phone and "get over it." Maybe you should just keep on planning on walking out the door at 60.

 

[StandBy1]

Wow. You're so very progressive in your thinking. Live and let live. You're open to anything and everything. I admire your open-minded liberal-ness. You don't want to infringe on anyone else's rights. Very cool. You probably don't have a problem with homosexual marriage, neo-nazis burning crosses on their own property, drug users, etc, etc, etc. Who are you to tell somebody else how to run their lives, right? Wife-beater? Who are you to tell him how to run his life? Thief? Who are you tell him how to run his life?

Sorry to point this out to you, but you tread all up and down other people's rights every day simply by virtue of the fact that you live in a society. Other people walk all over your rights too for the same reason. It's all part of the social contract we have bought into. It's a necessary part of life. Speeding is dangerous, so we have speed limits even though they essentially dictate to you how to run that part of your life. You don't want other people to murder or rape you so you support laws that outlaw that kind of stuff even though that means by doing so you are attempting to run that part of murderer's and rapist's lives. How dare you?

So, as progressive as you are, you still do try to run other people's lives. Why should you care about age 65? Age 65 affects everyone in this career field. Some people will reap a windfall. Others will be dealt a fairly large financial blow. Age 65 will impact upgrade times which impacts lifetime earnings, ability to retire earlier, and quality of life for a large number of pilots. Age 65 is not a win-win situation. If age 65 was about simple age discrimination, I'd be completely onboard with you but it's not simple age discrimination and I'm not onboard with you.

Wow, nice diatribe. I think it's referred to as
logorrhoea. They might have meds for it.

 

[johnsonrod]

I would think every Southwest pilot would make the call. Who wants to be doing 20 minute turns until they are 65???????????? That would be exhausting!

 

[capt. megadeth]

I am not "old", I dont have "ex-wives", however, I would like the oppotunity to fill in the gap in my later years to make some more $$$ if I chose to go that route. If people cant see the writing on the wall, its a shame. We have moved into an international economy/governement. Age 65 is just another way that we will blend in with the rest of them whether we want to or not. As long as we belong to the United Nations you can bank on that.

You say the anti 65 crowd is "greedy", so since you want the ability to "make some more $$$ if I choose to go that route.", what does that make you?

 

[capt. megadeth]

1. I fully expect that my company will attack my pension multiplier and my B fund contribution after this passes. It will do nothing to improve my quality of life and in essence will force me to work until 65 or whatever ridiculous age they come up with in the future.

2. I've said it a thousand times already. I do not understand how a pilot would VOLUNTARILY support any change that would prolong working. One of the reasons I got into this was because I knew I could get OUT EARLIER than the rest of the working schlubs.

3. Why do you want to work longer? I guess I'll never get it.

1. Exactly!

2. Dude, I'm with ya. I don't understand it either.

3. The only logical reason I can think of is that the person did not plan properly for retirement and now needs to work. Anything beyond that makes me think the person may very well be certifiably insane. :bawling:

 

[capt. megadeth]

I have a question for all of you telling the anti 65 crowd to "get over it". If 65 never passes, are YOU going to "get over it" (or are you going to be like the USAir babies?) LOL!

 

[crxpilot]

You say the anti 65 crowd is "greedy", so since you want the ability to "make some more $$$ if I choose to go that route.", what does that make you?

where did I say "greedy"?

 

[hoover]

If you want to retire at age 60, or 55, or whenever, go right ahead. Just don't tell ME when I have to retire.

 

[thor2j]

If you want to retire at age 60, or 55, or whenever, go right ahead. Just don't tell ME when I have to retire.

Um, they are going to tell you when to retire wether it be 60 or 65. They are still gonna' tell ya'.

 

[Sluggo_63]

Um, they are going to tell you when to retire wether it be 60 or 65. They are still gonna' tell ya'.

No... at 64 they start lobbying for 70... I can't wait...

 

[capt. megadeth]

where did I say "greedy"?

Oops, sorry, wasn't you. :smash:

 

[Networ-King]

For all you guys/gals that have made the call to keep the retirement age at 60.... gracias....

And for the guys/gals that have made the call to change my retirement age to 65... lets just keep this professional and oh yeah.... Go F&*K YOURSELVES...

by the way... here is that number again for everyone:

Fellow pilots,
Late Friday night APA was informed that the House of Representatives had adopted the Senate language in an effort to get the transportation appropriations bill to President Bush before Congress adjourns for the holidays. This bill contains language that, if passed, will change the pilot mandatory retirement age from 60 to 65.
In response to this threat to safety, on Wednesday APA will run newspaper advertising in USA Today and Washington, D.C. publications The Hill and Roll Call. APA has also issued the press release that we have appended to this message.
President Bush has stated that he will veto the bill and our legislative consultants in Washington do not believe that the Senate has the votes to override the veto — but APA still needs your help to ensure that President Bush does veto this bill. We are asking each of you to take a few minutes and call the White House and tell them that you want President Bush to veto the transportation appropriations bill. You may call the White House switchboard at 202-456-1414 or leave a message on the White House comment line at 202-456-1111.
APA National Communications

Happy thanksgiving to all ..... even to you old d o u c h e bags that didn't plan for your retirement............

sincerely,

Net

 

[The Prussian]

For all you guys/gals that have made the call to keep the retirement age at 60.... gracias....

And for the guys/gals that have made the call to change my retirement age to 65... lets just keep this professional and oh yeah.... Go F&*K YOURSELVES...

by the way... here is that number again for everyone:

Fellow pilots,
Late Friday night APA was informed that the House of Representatives had adopted the Senate language in an effort to get the transportation appropriations bill to President Bush before Congress adjourns for the holidays. This bill contains language that, if passed, will change the pilot mandatory retirement age from 60 to 65.
In response to this threat to safety, on Wednesday APA will run newspaper advertising in USA Today and Washington, D.C. publications The Hill and Roll Call. APA has also issued the press release that we have appended to this message.
President Bush has stated that he will veto the bill and our legislative consultants in Washington do not believe that the Senate has the votes to override the veto — but APA still needs your help to ensure that President Bush does veto this bill. We are asking each of you to take a few minutes and call the White House and tell them that you want President Bush to veto the transportation appropriations bill. You may call the White House switchboard at 202-456-1414 or leave a message on the White House comment line at 202-456-1111.
APA National Communications

Happy thanksgiving to all ..... even to you old d o u c h e bags that didn't plan for your retirement............

sincerely,

Net

Hi! Glad you brought up these points!
Who's trying to change your retirement age to 65???
No one...and that's the whole point...retire when you are ready...55...60...or 65...it should be up to you.
Upping the age to 65 would allow some of us, those who have been banged around in this industry, a chance to get themselves squared away before retirement. It's the responsible thing to do, wouldn't you agree??
There have also been too many assumptions on this board that everyone approaching 60 is divorced 2 or 3 times over, with expensive homes and summer lake cabins,....toys littering the landscape.
Painting senior people as despicable specimens of over-consumption, waste and irresponsibility, may be an over-dramatization designed to sway and help legitimize the <Age 60 proponents'> opposing point of view,...but are these characterizations true???
By and large, these people are guys and gals, like you and me, just working stiffs, trying to pay the bills and get ready for retirement.
So, I'd get rid of that "F@ul" attitude, and have a Happy Thanksgiving!!
Cheers!

 

[Networ-King]

Hey kocheece.....

I have the smallest fiddle playing your sad sad freaking tune. Don't talk to me about being banged up by this industry.... trust me... you won't win that argument. As for the retirement thing for you to get your sh!t straight???? UUmmmm when did you think you were going to retire at the latest from this industry when you got into this career? OOOOHHH THATS RIGHT..... it was and still is 60..... Not my fault you trusted your airlines to give you a retirement or you spent all your money on a life style that was not conducive to your pay check, or divorced a zillion times with lots of kids running around. Plan accordingly for now and the future and don't ever depend on someone else or corporate America to take care of you in your old age. Now that you are in the left seat and getting close to death, you've found religion and are starting to get worried about how you're going to get by in your retirement???? Arguing with your type is like yelling at a 1 year old.... pointless...

Obviously the guys that were smart enough set themselves up and don't need to work till they die and yet your type.... the inept.... will continue to lobby congress to change the laws again and again till the retirement age is 75 or 80 cause you're too much of a retard to save and invest wisely.

Hope you and your type, trying to f*&k the junior guys, choke on your turkeys this year....

 

[PCL_128]

The Prussian works for the highest paying narrow-body operator in the country. He has no excuse for not having his financial house in order.

 

[Nindiri]

Yikes. Some of you pro-age 60 guys are worse than the smoking nazis.

 

[capt. megadeth]

Yikes. Some of you pro-age 60 guys are worse than the smoking nazis.

That's because this will benefit the few and screw the rest.

It's the same thing like the RJ thing.....too good to fly an RJ and boy, didn't managment screw us with that one? It's gonna be the same thing with this. We'll be regretting it for years to come.

 

[Nindiri]

Not me, I'll be retiring at 52.

No reason to make everybody else retire so young if they don't want to.