Majors vs. Beliefs

[dash8driver]

I can't believe the amount of negativity out here because a guy asked a simple question. Some of you idiots need to get a life. MOU, I posted a reply in the regional forum. If you'd like talk about this more pm me.

Give the guy a frickin' break.

dear idiot,

believe it. this is a forum, he asked for opinions and he got them. if you dont want opinions that you dont want to hear, then go ask the question to a yes-man. if you only want opinions that are going to pat you on the back and support your view, this is the wrong place. if you want a variety of honest opinions, this is the place. we've all done our duty to supply him with our honest opinion, while you have held back the opinion you have for him and resulted to insults and a useless post on your part. why dont you provide the other half of the opinions he is looking for. dont be a chickensh!t and do it in PM's.. if you have something worthwhile to add post it, it may help out other people in a similar situation.

give him a break? you want us to lie to him or tell him an opinion of which we do not believe to make him feel better? that would be a disservice. we are participating here, give us a break and participate. maybe you will after you get a life.

 

[nimtz]

As mentioned before, it seems to me most applications ask you when you're willing to work. If you check all the boxes (indicating you'll work anytime), you're not being truthful, and if you make a stink later they'd be within their rights to fire you for lying on your app. If you indicate you won't work weekends/evenings, let the chips fall where they may. If you do that and they DO hire you, they'll just have to work it out.

This is all you need to pull out from the whole discussion. If you check this box on the application you will not be subject to working any of the 365 days per year. If you do not then you will not be hired and then one can sue if they want to, but don't expect anybody on here to tell you that is a great option.

I honestly respect your beliefs, but as has been said it won't work in the airline world. The reason for the negativity on this board is that all of us want to have the key days off to be with family and all of us know what it's like not to get those days off. That goes regardless of who we fly for or what level of seniority we have. With some it strikes a raw nerve when somebody brand new comes on asking if it's possible to get special treatment and still enjoy the job we all apparently are addicted to. Giving up time at home is part of the job you have to learn to deal with and growing up in an airline home I'm very used to. As has been said you're out of luck if your beliefs are strict.

 

[100LL... Again!]

In this country we are beginning to get to the point where too many people think they are entitled to everything.

Why should the religious get special treatment.

Even though I support this person's religious beliefs, stay out of this business if it is incompatible.

It is unfair that many people will wait years on reserve to get a day off EVERY WEEKEND!! Why should your religion essentially be a permit to cut in line.

I'm a right-wing religious guy myself, but if I ever decide that my faith and schedule are incompatible, I will either (1) find a flying job that normally has those days off (unlikely), or (2) go somewhere where I can work it out with my co-workers without me getting special treatment, or (3) change careers.

We are becoming a nation where the whining, greedy "needs" of the minority are considered to be an excuse to abrogate the rights of the majority.

One-man special interest groups must stop.

What if muslims decide airport x-ray macines are against their reigion?

Fine. Take the bus, pal.

 

[100LL... Again!]

What if I wanted to be a bartender in a strip club because they make a lot of money?

But I'm a Christian, so I am not supposed to look at nekkid wimmen.

Maybe I can make them put up a screen so my virgin eyes will remain pure while I shlepp overpriced beer at a bunch fo pathetic traveling salesmen?

Whadaya think?!!



Lemme sum it up for you-

If God wants you to be an airline pilot, He will forgive you for working the Sabbath.

If He does not, well, then you got trouble.

 

[wwcflyboy]

dash8driver,

I gave him my opinion, maybe you need to read my post on the regionals forum, I didn't feel the need to give the same opinion twice.

The poor guy's on here trying to get opinions, not useless sarcasm or negativity. Did I insult you, maybe the shoe fits. . . I would like to see you be able to give some honest, helpful opinions without slamming somebody who attempts to stand up for what he believes.

If you don't have the time to read my opinion in the regional forum on this same subject, I basically said the samething that has been said on here. If you want Saturdays, or for that matter, Tuesdays, guaranteed off, the airlines are the wrong place to be. Enough said. I at least respect a guy for taking a stand and trying to do what's right for him.

 

[sleepy]

edited

Now really, just about every airline application I have ever filled-out had something on it about having to work irregular schedules, nights, weekends and holidays. I would like to have every Saturday off so I can drink beer and watch college football. How is that fair to my co-workers if I get it out of seniority order just because I want it? They all paid their dues working nights, weekends, holidays, etc.... If you stay in the business long enough, you will eventually get your choice of a schedule. But please find something else to do if you can't handle the schedule, don't run to the courts like a baby and try to screw everybody else.

 

[Juvat]

I've always wondered how pilots with fundamental religious beliefs are able to integrate that with their flying schedules. Jewish, Muslim, LDS, & Jehovah's Witness all have sacred days.

Actually, every single Judaeo-Christian religion that professes to follow a book of scripture, whether it be the Bible, Torah, or Quran has a sabbath day. It's rather thick to single out the 4 religions you did in your post, as if they're the only ones who are obligated to follow their religion.

 

[dash8driver]

dash8driver,

I gave him my opinion, maybe you need to read my post on the regionals forum, I didn't feel the need to give the same opinion twice.

The poor guy's on here trying to get opinions, not useless sarcasm or negativity. Did I insult you, maybe the shoe fits. . . I would like to see you be able to give some honest, helpful opinions without slamming somebody who attempts to stand up for what he believes.

If you don't have the time to read my opinion in the regional forum on this same subject, I basically said the samething that has been said on here. If you want Saturdays, or for that matter, Tuesdays, guaranteed off, the airlines are the wrong place to be. Enough said. I at least respect a guy for taking a stand and trying to do what's right for him.

well, if you gave him your opinion on the other thread, keep in there. why do you come here and post useless drivel. seems to me it would be more worthwhile to post it twice than to post what you originally posted here.

you didnt insult me, but people lose sight of how community forums work and cant understand that if you ask for an opinion, you're not going to always get what you want to hear.. and that gets a little old.

the poor guy? what makes you think that? i too gave him my opinion, that it may not be the right place for him.. at least in the airlines. maybe he could find an outfit that doesnt fly on saturdays or something, like an SDA based company, similar to the SDA hospitals. looks like we agree somewhere along the way.

taking a stand? i didnt see him taking a stand, just asking for what people think about trying to get saturdays off. i respect anyone and everyones religion, so long as it doesnt encroach on anyone else's rights.

 

[Juvat]

In this country we are beginning to get to the point where too many people think they are entitled to everything.

Why should the religious get special treatment.

Even though I support this person's religious beliefs, stay out of this business if it is incompatible.

It is unfair that many people will wait years on reserve to get a day off EVERY WEEKEND!! Why should your religion essentially be a permit to cut in line.

I'm a right-wing religious guy myself, but if I ever decide that my faith and schedule are incompatible, I will either (1) find a flying job that normally has those days off (unlikely), or (2) go somewhere where I can work it out with my co-workers without me getting special treatment, or (3) change careers.

We are becoming a nation where the whining, greedy "needs" of the minority are considered to be an excuse to abrogate the rights of the majority.

One-man special interest groups must stop.

What if muslims decide airport x-ray macines are against their reigion?

Fine. Take the bus, pal.

Well said!! Amen brutha!

 

[shamrock]

It's rather thick to single out the 4 religions you did in your post, as if they're the only ones who are obligated to follow their religion.

Would you feel better if she put "etc." at the end of the religions listed?

Seems they were meant as examples, not an all-inclusive list.

 

[CYQQ]

I would suggest contacting someone in El Al, Saudia, or Egypt Air. Most of their pilots hold very strict religious beliefs yet they continue to operate on the sabbath.

They have obviously found a way to reconcile their beliefs with the demands of their job. Perhaps there is some form of religious dispensation for this type of work. eg. Muslim pilots are allowed to eat during Ramadan so long as they make up a day of fasting later in the year.

Best of Luck

 

[Juvat]

Would you feel better if she put "etc." at the end of the religions listed?

Seems they were meant as examples, not an all-inclusive list.

Hmmmm...funny that the the religions chosen in that example are typically the ones singled out by religious bigots. I think the choice of religions in that post is actually very telling.

Anyway, to make a more basic point: as a pilot, we try to be precise in everything we do. This shows in our flying, and it should also show up every now and then when we attempt to make logical arguments. This thread is too interesting to let others bring down the dialogue with inaccurate generalizations.

 

[KeroseneSnorter]

Movin,

Pick another aspect of aviation for your career. Airlines are not, and will never be compatible with your faith.

It would be foolish to pursue this path given your beliefs. Airlines are 24/7 365. It will only alienate you in your career.

If air ambulance works for your beliefs, Go for that instead.

 

[Heathen]

Movin On...

Movin,

Pick another aspect of aviation for your career. Airlines are not, and will never be compatible with your faith.

It would be foolish to pursue this path given your beliefs. Airlines are 24/7 365. It will only alienate you in your career.

If air ambulance works for your beliefs, Go for that instead.

Speaking of religion, I guess being a Zion Coptic or Rastafarian is not compatable with aviation. Given their sacred herb ritual. What about the Santerians????

 

[Ty Webb]

Hmmm . . . . so what are we going to do to accomodate the Rastafarians? Jah, Mon. Hand da spleef my way . . . I gwine a get ta' morrow off enny way.

Seriously . . . your religious beliefs are at odds with the requirements of the job description of an airline pilot. If you can't reconcile your beliefs with the job description, you need to find a job that is right for you. There are church-operated jet aircraft . . . . I suggest you try to find one to work for, instead of expecting an airline to grant you special favors and privileges.

 

[flynlow]

If you think getting paid to read the paper at 350 is work, you've got it all wrong. Just make sure you don't have any inflight emergencies on Saturdays.

 

[Hose A. Jiminez]

I must ask if I may!!!!!

No Flying on Sundays ?!?!?

Whats next???

I cant Spank it to some good hotel porn?

NOW IM GOING ON STRIKE!!!!

 

[sleepy]

El Al might be the only airline for you. They do not fly on Saturday.

 

[J32driver]

First off, I respect your religious beliefs. But, You already know the answer to your question if you simply look at the ultimate end to your request.

If you get Saturday off because of certain needs, then your employer must offer the same options to anyone who requests it. If they don't, it is simple descrimination. Everyone at my airline would like to have Saturday off, but we all know that is impossible.

Airlines in the U.S. are not a realistic option for you. Your best bets are probably corporate or Foreign companies that share your same requirement to have Saturdays off.

 

[MetroSheriff]

I can't believe the amount of negativity out here because a guy asked a simple question. Some of you idiots need to get a life. MOU, I posted a reply in the regional forum. If you'd like talk about this more pm me.

Give the guy a frickin' break.

As the old song goes:

"Please don't ask me what I think of you, because I might not give the answer that you want me to..."

 

[FatesPawn]

Listen everybody....I AM LOOKING FOR INFO AND NOT EVERYBODIES OPINION

MOU,

I hope this falls under the "info" column.

Airline applications rarely have the check-box "are you willing to work weekends and holidays..." anymore. Instead, they've switched to a simple statement of "This job requires irregular days, hour and shifts... etc"

I respect you for your beliefs and for you sticking to your guns. But, if you can't meet the "Condition of employment" of irregular hours and shifts, it would be lie to sign your name to that application.

I assume you are a moral individual and as such, you would bring this fact up in the interview and allow the airline decide if their irregular schedule can be meshed to YOUR pre-requisites to accept the job.

Good luck your career.

Fate.

 

[capt. megadeth]

"Wow... a lot of anti-semites on here... can't say I'm surprised"

This is dumb....just because people don't agree with someone getting a certain day off because of religious beliefs does not mean they are anti-semites. Stupid.

So if I don't agree with affirmative action, does that mean I don't like women and minorities? Duh

 

[TonyC]

So if I don't agree with affirmative action, does that mean I don't like women and minorities? Duh

Wait!


You like women?!?!






.

 

[capt. megadeth]

"You like women?!?!"

he he

 

[Movin' on up!]

Wow....maybe for my next post I will ask who will make a better president...Kerry or Bush? Hows' that for controversy? Anyway....
Hugh--You really need to read my original post. Hope you don't read your approach plates like you read my post. I never said I was going to sue, I said that someone sued for that time off.
dash8driver....I sense some anger issues with you. Better have a talk with someone about that.
To all the rest...I am trying to find out what possibilities exist. True, I asked for your info and some of your opinions actually had something for me. I guess my mistake here was to expect respectful answers from a group of PROFESSIONALS who are in the industry. I did not ask for your opinion on my religion or beliefs, but I did ask as to how bring both my career and beliefs together. I don't expect anything from any company. Do I feel entitled to anything? Sure. The constitution entitles me to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness...and as such, I do expect an opportunity. If I fail....then I had my opportunity.
According to dash8driver...
Its like saying that I don't fly with gay pilots because that would encroach on my rights. Huh? What does it matter? They have their life and if it bothers you, well that is too bad. I have my beliefs, and if they bother you, too bad. But I still should get my opportunity. I know Alaska Airline had a provision for people with religious days, but that was many years ago and don't know if they still do.
Have I ever demanded anythingfrom any company? NO. If I have to sue to get a job, then it is not worth it to me. I can't justify suing with my beliefs. I know of people who keep certain days sacred who are Captains in the majors and regionals. How did they do it? I don't know and I can't get a hold of anyone to ask. That is why I asked you all. So please, be like kerosenesnorter, be a professional, respectful and give me an answers that doesn't attack me or my beliefs. That is the kind of answer I am looking for. I know it is almost impossible for this to work out for me. But I have to try to find a way. It would be irresponsible for me otherwise. If not, then I can continue to do what I do now or seek other kinds of employment.

 

[#1 Windmilling]

SHAMROCK,

AWESOME AVATER, BRO! Let's hope it is against Jeter's, Sheffield's, A-Rod's and Matsui's religion to hit baseballs on Tuesdays and Wednesdays! Oh year, throw in Williams and Posada too. Time to move off this thread.....

_GO SOX!!!

 

[MCDU]

The World would be so much better today without all these religous groups.
Whos right and whos wrong? Its all a big business called religion. (I do know that Santa Clause exists). Its funny that the most peaceful and prosperous countries in the world do not have strong religious beliefs. Like Lenin said. Religion is the opium for the poor and uneducated.

Marty

 

[climbhappy]

keeping a religious custom is legalism, it's against God's word.

St. Paul, who wrote most of the new testament clearly preaches( if you'll read his letters to the church at Corinth,Rome, Phillipi, Thessolonica and Galatia about SUBSTITUTING WHAT JESUS DID AT THE CROSS WITH THE KEEPING OF THE LAW. THIS WOULD MEAN THAT ANYONE WITH THE MIND THAT BY OBSERVING THE SABBATH, OR ANOTHER CUSTOM, THEY WOULD HAVE SOMEHOW SATISFIED GOD OR EARNED HIS FAVOR. THIS IS BLASPHEMY BECAUSE IT NULLIFIES WHAT THE CROSS MEANS. WE'RE ALL SINNERS AND SINCE WE CAN'T EVER COME CLOSE TO KEEPING THE LAW (I.E. keeping the sabbath, not dipping, not drinking, not eating pork, not working on sundays, not having premarital sex, and on and on) This is what legalism is. St. Paul clearly says these things my not be good for us, but if we think that by abstaining from them OR COMPLYING WITH THEM (IN THE CASE OF THIS POSTER) we have earned favor with God, then we are dead wrong.

Any thing that attempts to change the One time payment for all our sins IS AGAINST THE WORD OF GOD .LEGALISM IS THE BIGGEST MALADY AFFECTING THE MODERN DAY CHURCH. If you miss church for a job don't sweat it. If you have a drink , don't sweat it. if you sin in any way, don't sweat it. Now that's Good news.

 

[Heathen]

Like Lenin said. Religion is the opium for the poor and uneducated.

Marty

I think that was actually Karl Marx, you know, of the Marx brothers fame.
Karl, Groucho, Zippo.....Opium is the mother of all analgestics, now who said that?

 

[MCDU]

Yep, I think your right. I knew it was some commie.