majority of pilots pencil whip??

[TXCAP4228]

Everytime I read this board I see pilots whining about something. Whining about low pay, or whining about PFT, or whining about how hard it is to find a job or whining about unions or scope or the TSA or ATC or the FAA or some other D@MN thing that is ruining the industry and screwing pilots. The tone of the whine is usually about how pilots are screwing each other and lowering the standards of the industry.

Hell, even a pilot's wife was whining about low pay this week. It took all the discipline I had not to reply to that.


And then we come to this pencil whipping logbooks. For all the perceived harm from everything under the sun as it pertains to flying, and how pilots everywhere are F*&%CKING this industry by taking low pay or paying for training or god knows what else, I can't believe that those of you who are the first to spout off about how unfair the wages are or how wrong it is to work for free or even (gasp) PFT are nowhere to be found on this thread.

There can be no greater insult to pilots that the lie in your logbook.... and for some reason no one rails on it like they rail on their pet issues. I guess honor and courage are not much in vogue anymore.

To the pilots who have posted to say its wrong I applaud you. To the rest, I'll say that if you tolerate it then you are guilty of it.

 

[localizer11]

When I was working on my private, a CFI told me this story:

A young instructor is working hard and trying to build time. He wants a part 135 job really bad, but doesn't have the multi time. So one day he starts to pencil whip time into his logbook, using a Cessna 310' s tail number he sees at the airport. He gets the 135 job and everything seems fine. Eventually, he needs an ATP and goes up for the checkride. During the oral, the DE is spending a lot of time going over his logbook. Finally the DE asks " I see you have a lot of time in twin cessna 123XX. " The pilot responds in the affirmative. The DE looks at him and says "That's impossible, 123XX is MY airplane." Needless to say, the pilot's career ended that day.

Even if it doesn't seem wrong or unethical for some to pad their logbook, things like this tend to catch up with people. He'll always have to look over his shoulder.

 

[fr8doggydog]

The peace of mind I have from honest logbooks far outweigh any benefit I might have gotten from pencil whipping. I'm sure many do, and few get caught, but most recruiters and examiners can spot scammers a mile away if it doesn't reflect in their flying skills.

 

[Whirlwind]

When I was working on my private, a CFI told me this story:

A young instructor is working hard and trying to build time. He wants a part 135 job really bad, but doesn't have the multi time. So one day he starts to pencil whip time into his logbook, using a Cessna 310' s tail number he sees at the airport. He gets the 135 job and everything seems fine. Eventually, he needs an ATP and goes up for the checkride. During the oral, the DE is spending a lot of time going over his logbook. Finally the DE asks " I see you have a lot of time in twin cessna 123XX. " The pilot responds in the affirmative. The DE looks at him and says "That's impossible, 123XX is MY airplane." Needless to say, the pilot's career ended that day.

Even if it doesn't seem wrong or unethical for some to pad their logbook, things like this tend to catch up with people. He'll always have to look over his shoulder.

Which of course just goes to show the guy is an idiot. That may or may not have happened, but I'm sure similar things have.

The only reasonably safe way to pencil whip time is to buy your own airplane. Then no one can question how much you actually flew it.

Of course, if you can afford your own airplane, why not just fly the damm thing and get the hours the honest way?

True story: I flew my 172 two nights ago, thought I had flown 1.5 hours on the Hobbs. Turns out when I came in the next day, I had flown 1.1 hours, I read it wrong the night before. Yes, I opened up my log book and corrected it down to 1.1 hours from 1.5. No one would ever know, it is my own airplane. That doesn't matter, it would be wrong to lie and keep the time that I didn't fly in my log.

I also agree that padding log books is the worst thing a pilot can do. Worse than working for free, or PFT, or low wages, or anything. Lying about your time is, well, just wrong.

Jason

 

[Timebuilder]

I'd much prefer to be judged *after* someone determines the nature of my character - not based on my age alone.

In order to keep bad generalizations from happening, various groups need to police themselves. If kids don't want the burden of the release of university studies that clearly shows that cheating, whether in relationships, on tests, or in the workplace (can you say Jayson Blair? I knew you could...) is far above and beyond what is was when I was in school, then the answer is to refuse to tolerate it from your peers. This is the reason that "character classes" are becoming more common recently. The basis of this decline is the destruction of the American family.

The same applies to Americans of mideastern origins. Thanks to others from your group, people are now suspicious of you. Therefore, you need to go that extra mile to make certain that no one you know or love is involved in anything but ridding the US of the kind of high profile terrorism that we saw on September 11th.

The best defense against a negative generalization is to prevent the formation of the factual basis upon which it is built. The best defense is a good offense.

 

[WrightAvia]

Is there a difference between...

Padding your log book or buying a twin and perfoming holding out to the public type flying, to get your multi time on someone elses dime?

I had two partners in a 300 series Cessna that were doing 134 1/2 trips. I finally bought one partner out so I could concentrate on sticking it royally to the other one. That EX partner is now selling tavern supplies for a living.

But back onto the subject of padding...not advocating it, but owning your own plane is a good cover for padding your log book. In theory you don't run into the problem that localizer11 mentioned in his DE story. It's still wrong.

I think if people are splitting time in a twin, it's the same as padding in my book, even if there is a legal way to log it.

If some guy came to an interview with 200 hours of safety pilot time in his log book as his only multi after getting the multi rating, I know places that would not consider this applicant for hire. Even a guy that was being paid to part 91 in the right seat in a B-100 King Air. Seen it happen...but that is the subject of a different post.

 

[bobbysamd]

P-51 time

Pilot friend is getting a type via WIA and plans to make it an ATP ride as well. Problem is I know he is at least 300 shy of ATP mins. So he pencil whipped the rest. He claims 90% of the pilots do it. I don't believe it. I think it's his rationalization to sooth his conscience. What do you think? Do most pencil whip?

I agree with your analysis of your "friend"; moreover, I think that your "friend" is a cynic and a practitioner of situational ethics. I do not feel at all that most pilots pencil-whip.

I know of one pilot whom I'm positive pencil-whipped his logbook for turbine time. He got hired. I never considered it, ever, ever, no matter how desperate I felt, and I was not hired. But my conscience is clear and maybe his isn't. In no way am I trying to be sanctimonious or regard myself as such; it was important to me that I be hired on my qualifications, and do to the right thing.

I appreciate Timebuilder's Jayson Blair comments. I appreciate Whirlwind's 172 logbook story. I would have done the same thing. I also appreciate TXCAP4228's comments as well.

 

[sf3boy]

If you put falsehoods in your logbook, then you are just that; a liar and a cheat. If you can not do it the honest way, then don't do it. The ones that do only put there passengers/cargo and themselves in harms way. And eventually, a PC, year check or new hire sim eval will show that they are full of f_____g s__t.

I am proud of every hour that is in the book and the hundreds that aren't.

 

[TurboS7]

Every hour in my log book is true and accounted for. If anything there are a couple of hundred hours that I have missed. Our system is based on integrity and honesty, once a pilot breaches that he is lower than a scab, a disgrace to the industry. BTW now days that is considered fraud by the FAA and will get you some time in the fed. pen. Hope that your friend enjoys it.

 

[FlyDeltasJets]

Corky,

I'd rather fly with someone who pencil-whipped than a scab. At least the hours in a pencil-whipper's logbook were not stolen from a real pilot. Neither, however, has any integrity.

That being said, I don't think that the 90% figure is even remotely close. As many have pointed out, it just isn't worth it.

 

[airgator]

Without doing a poll or anything I would say that 90% have never made up a flight and logged it. Maybe 75% have never exagerated or added a .1, etc. I would fly with a scab over someone that made up their time any day of the week.

 

[AAflyer]

Since we are keeping score count me in, I did not do it, and do not respect those that did. Some will get away with it, but if oa person has even an once of self respect he/she will look away from the mirror at the end of his/her career.

Hopefully that person did not steal a job from another honest aviator who deserved it.

Starting with 00.00 on the S80 shortly, it will a be real, it will be all mine. I earned it!


AAflyer

The pen is NOT mighter than the power lever.

 

[busdrver]

How could this question even be asked?

 

[350DRIVER]

I highly doubt that alot of pilots do this, your friend is in the minority here. Will he get caught.? Probably not however he will always question this choice in his mind and know that he forged a document and did not get to where he is by "honestly" logging the flight time. I sure would not want this on my mind, I am pretty sure it will be a constant reminder to him over his career IF he has even a semi-honest mindset. It is much better to "earn" a position than obtaining it by fraud or deception. It proves nothing other than a lack of complete honesty.


3 5 0

 

[LearLove]

KIND OF THE SAME QUESTION

This is along the same lines but alittle diff.

First we'll set up the situation....

Say you got your commercial single eng. in 1991 and went on to get CFI, Multi and ATP while instructing, flying charter. Then on to 121 operations bla bla bla......

Now its like 8 years later your a 121 capt. and your going over your 5 or so logbooks with like 6000 tt some types and whatever experiance comes with 4 or so years at a regional.

Your doing this to get ready for that interview with ABC Dream Airways, the biggest, most high paying, owner of the best puttin other pilots down scope clause in the industry, your dream of dreams.

Now while your at it you just happen to notice that way back you, your instructor and the DE (or FAA examiner) missed the fact that you never recieved instruction in such and such a maneuver or your a few hours short of say the required x-country time for a piticular rating. This was an honest mistake that just got overlooked by everyone.

What do you do?