majority of pilots pencil whip??

[pilotyip]

we all pad our logbooks

How many on this board after ever blocked out on the road prior to the airplane moving under its own power, for pay purposes. Would that not be considered padding? I will bet the number is greater than 1. In the non-sked business, I have flown with guys who blocked out when they walked on to the ramp. Who is to say 2.5 from LIT to BUF is padding as opposed to the actual of 2.3. .2 per day times, 20 flight days per month ='s 4 hours extra pay per month. This is know as padding for pay, that is usally followed by dozing for dollars. Now of course I have never done any of this, I have only heard rumors around the ramp, in the cockpit, on the F/E's panel.

 

[corky]

Neither is right but I think padding a little before and after the flight is less evil than logging time for a flight you never even flew. I'm not advocating padding but the intent is to get paid more not lie about your qualifications, undercutting someone who is honest when you're both completing for the same job.

 

[jsoceanlord]

i had a guy tell me that it all works out in the end - he was implying that after you've got a few thousand hours, flight time doesn't really matter anyway. (so, it's like it matters at first and years later, it doesn't matter as much)

 

[Typhoon1244]

No. Maybe it's because I was a kid in the fifties.

Of course, nobody ever lied in the Glorious Fifties. (Cigarettes are good for you! President Eisenhower doesn't even know what a U-2 is! Rock Hudson is a real ladies man!) And look at Bill Clinton: he was a kid in the Fifties, and he never told a lie.

Timebuilder, I've got a lot of respect for you and I'm confident you yourself are an honest man...but please. Your generation is not fundamentally more honest than mine or any other. (People even lied in the Bible, you know...)

By the way, all of my hours...what few there are...are real. I've got a much too guilty conscience to try to fake through something like that at an interview!

 

[Timebuilder]

Your generation is not fundamentally more honest than mine or any other. (People even lied in the Bible, you know...)

While you just cited some wonderful exceptions to the rule, I am supported by many studies that are on my side. But hey, go and do your own survey. Call the service academies, and ask about the violations of the Honor System since the 1970's. Have they increased? Ask a principal who has just retired about the level of cheating he has seen in his tenure. Is it worse?

Since you mentioned the Bible, you should know that dishonesty is symptomatic of the state of Man. How well we struggle, or decide to not struggle against dishonesty is a symptom of society.

My point is that situational ethics have made the idea of cheating much more socially acceptable over the past 40 years.

Based on this observation, I'm willing to bet that false flights in logbooks have increased in my lifetime.

 

[dmspilot00]

I'm willing to bet that false flights in logbooks have increased in my lifetime.

I'm willing to bet that real flights in logbooks have increased in your lifetime.

(Both proportionally).

 

[100LL... Again!]

Anyone who pencil whips 300 hours to meet ATP minimums is
(here we go

A FRAUD AND A CHEAT, AND UNWORTHY OF THE CERTIFICATE.

Strong enough for you? He should be turned in. I mean it.

His lie YES LIE , represents one fourth of his real total time.

This whole industry is based on the honor system, and he has proved his word is worth little.

He can sooth his conscience any way he likes. he's a liar.

If it was a friend of mine, I'd be tempted to turn him in. However, to prevent damage to my own career, I would most likely settle for not associating with him anymore.

For those who are sympathetic, flame away.

 

[Typhoon1244]

While you just cited some wonderful exceptions to the rule...

Some?!? Reporters didn't lie in the Fifties? Politicians? Nobody cheated on the spouces? Game shows? Cops trumping up charges against blacks?

A big part of my major in college (Geography/Cartography) was statistics. The most important lesson I came away with is that "studies" like the ones you mentioned are usually unreliable...too much depends on who conducted the study and how.

My point is that situational ethics have made the idea of cheating much more socially acceptable over the past 40 years.

I believe you're right about that, but that didn't deter people from lying in their logbooks in the '30's, '40's, or even the '50's.

Based on this observation, I'm willing to bet that false flights in logbooks have increased in my lifetime.

I'll bet you'd be wrong.

 

[flybrowntails]

Your friend may "pencil whip", "pad", "round-up" or whatever he may call it--the result is still the same. It is a disadvantage to the industry as well as himself. His true ability will be displayed in a sim eval. (PC, PT) or in a real situation (hopefully not).

Enjoy your flight experiences and be proud of what you have truly accomplished. (not to sound to preachy)

Cheers.

 

[pilotyip]

again flt time does define the pilot

Flt time does not define a person's performance in the sim, but if that low hr pilot had been through the proper training there is a very good chance he will be head and shoulders above a 1,000 or 2,000 hr pilot. This guy could have come from the an ANG training program and is qualified to fly the KC-135 or A-10 or F-16. At 300 hrs I was sitting the left seat of a P-3, a 120,000#'s + four engine turbo prop flying around Viet Nam, with one engine shut down most of the time. I did this with no problems because I was properly trained. I have hired army Helo drivers with 50 hrs of fixed time including 5 hrs MEL, they were better pilots than many of our general aviation pilots with 2-3000 hrs, these guys had no problems checking out as Captain on our jets. So logged time alone does make a pilot good or bad. If a pilot cheats blatently on his log book it may define other short cuts in his style

 

[list2002]

I have not been instructing long. But I have seen someone rejected for his ATP practical because of his log book. It seems to be right around that time that padding becomes most tempting. Many 135 guys get these job offers because of connections but tell their buddys they need just a bit more time to be official per FAR's.
Note to the instructors, my fellow instructor signed his 8710 form to help with the gold seal pass rate. No sign off is needed for the initial ATP pratical, and since this is a pretty regular time for some pilots to need a "jump" in their career, there is no need for you to associate their name with yours. If something is fishy, train them and let them do what they will, but if they want your endorsement, remember it lasts 60 days and they can go anywhere they want with it till it expires. Even though some pilots can fly the pants off another in much less time, they may not get past step one, the logbook check of the checkride to prove it. No real "sure thing" on the sign off's
Best of luck