MAF/pilot shortage

[mattfish42]

Missionary flying is something I want to do eventually. What kind of experience do you think would realistically be necessary before getting into this? Right now I've got just about two year's wrench time and 200 hours flight time, so I'm certain that I've got a lot more learning to do.

 

[avbug]

and those of Avbug's religious affiliation do not share the same core beliefs about the Bible and the manner of worship that God shows us He wants in the Bible as do the majority of evangelical mission organizations.

Really?

I guess that lumps you in the same pile as the MAF pilot I met. Both uninformed on that particular topic, and certainly in no positive manner.

 

[TurboS7]

Whoa, I didn't mean this post to turn into a theolodgical debate(however you spell it)There was a need and I wanted to present it. The qualifications for MAF go beyond the technical to the spiritual, which makes it tacky. You do not need to be a Christian to fly a MAF airplane. It flies the same no matter who is at the controls. I am sure that most non-Christian pilots fly ten times more efficient that a Christian pilot.MAF is looking for pilot's that love the Word of God and want to do whatever to further God's kingdom. If you are a non-Christian you will be asked to see things from a diffrent perspective. Notice, I am not with MAF due to attitude's that CAT Driver protrayed. MAF used to promote an attitude that we are here to fly airplanes and that is all. That has changed significantly in the last 15 years. They have come to realize that ministry happens every day no matter what you do.As for Africa MAF-USA only works in three countries, MAF(UK) is in charge of the rest, maybe Cat you should have called the Brits.

A+P 200 hours you have what MAF is looking for. I would call them now and start getting a spot lined up if you are interested.

 

[Timebuilder]

Really?

I guess that lumps you in the same pile as the MAF pilot I met. Both uninformed on that particular topic, and certainly in no positive manner.

If you mean that I do not subscribe to ideas like the bread and wine of the lord's supper actually becoming the body and blood of Christ during communion, that we should be praying to Christ's mother, or that "saints" are anything outside of being typical believers, then yes, you would be right about that. The Bible does not teach those things, and that's just the short list.

I am "positive" that those concepts are non-Biblical. That said, I will try and lead others to the truth in the Bible, and away from the constructs of Man. I will NOT be nasty about it.

 

[Cat Driver]

TurboS7 :

It was in 1999 that I contacted MAF, first by e-mail and then I phoned one of the principals in Ca.

The only reason I contacted MAF was I had talked to a MAF crew on 126.9 some years ago in Angola for traffic seperation in Luanda.

I met them at the airport the next day and they were very helpful and friendly.

So one day I thought, hey why not get ahold of MAF and ask if they knew of any fuel avalibility up the eastern side of Africa, as I had decided to fly that route.

When I talked to whomever in Ca. I was left with the impression that I was somehow an irritation to him..

In fact I almost told him to go f.ck himself, but my better judjment told me that would not really be proper.

By the way my wife is a born again and supports MAF as well as other organizations.

I am a savage with no religeous beliefe, what I do is take every human being as they are and judge them by their actions....

Religion has many facets, the Salvation Army can be judged by their helping the down trodden, the fanatics that flew into the twin towers are the other end of the spectrum.

Cat Driver:

 

[wms]

I was very disturbed to find out that they are only meeting 40% of their needs for pilots. There are many Christian pilot on this board and we do owe at least one term of our lives serving the Lord. MAF requires an A+P for the out stations,but they find they do not need the A+P for those that are based at a multiple pilot base.All pilots must raise their own support but MAF will asist you in that, really you are raising prayer support which is vital to mission work.

If it's really the Lord's will for someone to be a pilot there, He will provide the means. it doesn't require human intervention like fund-raising. Many people force things to happen no matter what and then say it was the Lord's will because they said a prayer after they set their own mind to it. The Lord will provide the desire, the opportunity and the means. There are similar organizations that work differently. And because we are pilots doesn't mean we need to serve the Lord as pilots. There are many ways to distribute what is His to begin with, not just for one period, but for life.

I am "positive" that those concepts are non-Biblical. That said, I will try and lead others to the truth in the Bible, and away from the constructs of Man. I will NOT be nasty about it.

Amen.

 

[TurboS7]

WMS-You are totally right and I agree with you. It is just interesting that the opportunity exsist. In my day it was harder to get into MAF or JAARS than it was getting into the airlines. The Lord REALLY had to open the doors and provide. HE is able and I think sometimes we are more effective in the world and not being a part of it than to be seperate from the world in our own cocoon of spirituality.

 

[TurboS7]

Cat Driver-When I was with MAF I would have taken the time out of the day to steer you in the right direction. Whomever the person was I will apologize on their behalf. I know quite a few people at Redlands and I would say that all of them would want me to do that, especially if you were offended in any way.

 

[Timebuilder]

If it's really the Lord's will for someone to be a pilot there, He will provide the means. it doesn't require human intervention like fund-raising. Many people force things to happen no matter what and then say it was the Lord's will because they said a prayer after they set their own mind to it. The Lord will provide the desire, the opportunity and the means. There are similar organizations that work differently. And because we are pilots doesn't mean we need to serve the Lord as pilots. There are many ways to distribute what is His to begin with, not just for one period, but for life.

God expects us to be good stewards, and work with the framework of organizations that serve Him, and follow the rules and requests that they have arrived at in a prayerful manner. If He calls, he WILL provide, but you can bet that He expects time, focus, and effort on your part, too. This may mean offering an MAF presentation to your local church, along with other churches that support missions. That isn't unreasonable.

 

[avbug]

If you mean that I do not subscribe to ideas like the bread and wine of the lord's supper actually becoming the body and blood of Christ during communion, that we should be praying to Christ's mother, or that "saints" are anything outside of being typical believers, then yes, you would be right about that. The Bible does not teach those things, and that's just the short list.

I don't believe those things either, no do I take communion, nor do I pray to anybody's mother, yada, yada. Again, I suppose that puts you in the same bracket as the MAF pilot who ignorantly and incorrectly identified my beliefs (as if it were his business), and then condemned them. Police, Prosecutor, Judge. Sentenced. Thanks.

Between us, the difference lies in that I will fully support one who does believe or do those things, and I will support them in their belief.

Use caution wherewith ye judge, for with what judgement ye judge, so therefore shall ye be judged. No?

I refuse to argue or discuss religion here, or elsewhere, save for a personal setting under which it may be appropriate. It seems without the benifit of such a discussion, the MAF pilot was quick to condemn, much like you. My own beliefs are quite irrelevant. I could be Southern Baptist, Progressive Episcopalian, Roman Catholic, LDS, Seventh Day Adventist, or even Buddhist (which permits one to be a Christian and still practice Buddhism with full compatability). You don't know. Yet without the benifit of that knowledge, so quick to judge, as you seem to feel you have all the answers.

So tell me, shrine mercenary, who delivered you the power to interpret Calvary? Or to judge, in direct contravention to all counsel by Paul, and Christ? Further, when considering the ministry or the general interaction between the "Christian" and the "Gentile," was it not Christ who supped with the publicans, walked among the leppers, and who healed the ear of him come to take him to custody and kill him? (It was). For those "christians" who will not associate with others because of their (incorrectly) perceived beliefs...they're not very "christian," are they?

Fuzzy wuzzy was a bear...

I'll not pursue this thread further. The nature of the picking apart and bible bashing itself is discrespectful, and hardly invites any spirt appropriate to the nature of the material.

Then again, On the Beach on this very site pronounced me captive of all evil, and told me I have the devil in my heart. Must be so, don't you think?

 

[Timebuilder]

I don't believe those things either, no do I take communion, nor do I pray to anybody's mother, yada, yada. Again, I suppose that puts you in the same bracket as the MAF pilot who ignorantly and incorrectly identified my beliefs (as if it were his business), and then condemned them. Police, Prosecutor, Judge. Sentenced. Thanks.

Good.

You might have noticed that I prefaced these assumptions with the words "if you mean."

If you mean something else, it is for you to articulate that, or risk being misunderstood.

I articulated a common set of beliefs regarding a group that is very large and describes themselves as being "Christian." If you failed to articulate your beleifs to a group that has a definite structure of doctrine based on the Bible (such as MAF), or if you mentioned a group affiliation that by name or doctrine is not Biblically based, then you can expect a conflict.

Not a prosecution, not a judgement, not a sentence. Just a recognition of a doctrine that does not agree with the Bible. You are welcome.

Use caution wherewith ye judge, for with what judgement ye judge, so therefore shall ye be judged. No?

Yes. Also:

2Corinthians 6:14 says "Do not be unequally yoked together with unbelievers. For what fellowship has righteousness with lawlessness? And what communion has light with darkness?"

So, as believers, were are not to felllowship or partner with unbelievers, which explains the doctrinal requirement of MAF membership or organizations like them. We ARE to reach out to those who have not conformed to God's word. The "judgement" is His, and His alone. We are tasked with discernment.

Malachi 3:18 " Then you shall again discern Between the righteous and the wicked, Between one who serves God And one who does not serve Him.'

It seems without the benifit of such a discussion, the MAF pilot was quick to condemn, much like you. My own beliefs are quite irrelevant. I could be Southern Baptist, Progressive Episcopalian, Roman Catholic, LDS, Seventh Day Adventist, or even Buddhist (which permits one to be a Christian and still practice Buddhism with full compatability). You don't know. Yet without the benifit of that knowledge, so quick to judge, as you seem to feel you have all the answers.

Calling discernement a "judgement" is a defensive position, and not logically sound in the context of God's word. Since God's word is the foundation of this discussion, He is right. I just follow it. A Christian organization could not, using discernement, partner with several of the beliefs that you listed. That's Biblically based, and correct in obedience to His word. To do so would be, to use the popular term, ecumenical rather than Biblical.

So you see, I do know, because the inerrant Word has told me. If you have a better understanding, I invite you to show me where that understanding is based. Other than that, the MAF man may have been rude and behaved ignorantly, but he was not wrong to resist an ecumenical attitude in a Biblically based organization.

So tell me, shrine mercenary, who delivered you the power to interpret Calvary? Or to judge, in direct contravention to all counsel by Paul, and Christ? Further, when considering the ministry or the general interaction between the "Christian" and the "Gentile," was it not Christ who supped with the publicans, walked among the leppers, and who healed the ear of him come to take him to custody and kill him? (It was). For those "christians" who will not associate with others because of their (incorrectly) perceived beliefs...they're not very "christian," are they?

Well, despite your unjustifed judgement (see who is doing the judging here?) of "shrine mercenary" (whatever that means, it cannot be complimentary), believers are commanded to read and understand His Word, in prayerful guidance by God the Holy Spirit. Nothing is in contradiction to Paul or Christ.

Christ supped with publicans, tax collectors and such, because they needed a physician, meaning that He was there to minister to their spiritual needs, not to sit as an equal, or a social or business partner.

So, He was not taking them on, any of them, as disciples until He called them, such as he did with Saul of Tarsis on the road to Emmaus, and they believed in Him. Belief came first, partnering second. In that order.

To not partner, or be "unequally yoked" with unbelievers, is Biblical indeed, and unequivocal in its clarity. Nothing fuzzy at all. ALL of Christ's disciples and followers had repented of their former beliefs and activities before partnering with Christ.

That's the example I think you are missing.

I can't say if the devil is in your heart at all. I CAN tell you that if you reject the teaching of the Bible, you are rejecting the word of God, and God Himself, by extension. Even now, while days grow short, you are still called to kneel, and accept His word as truth.

That's up to you, and you alone.

 

[TurboS7]

MAF's website: www.maf.org-Their doctrinal statement is also available there also.

 

[TurboS7]

www.JAARS.org-website will also get you into requirements.JAARS(Jungle Aviation and Radio Service)is the corporate flying arm of Wycliffe Bible Translators. My daughter is with Wycliffe and my Dad and Mom are retired WBT'r and JAARS flight dispatcher.

 

[Timebuilder]

For Cat driver:

Religion has many facets, the Salvation Army can be judged by their helping the down trodden, the fanatics that flew into the twin towers are the other end of the spectrum.

While you can often judge good and evil by acts, you must be careful.

Some of the greatest evils of our time revolve around the supposed "equal rights" of some special groups, which have resulted in the near destruction of the American family, the driving of God from our schools, and the acceptance of aberrant behavior as normal by a so-called "modern" and "progressive" and "open" society.

Further, even the best acts have nothing to to with salvation. Ask your wife about Ephesians 2:8-9.

8 "For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast."

Just as we know, in American aviation, that only the office of chief counsel can interpret regulations of the FAA, we also know that, according to the Bible, only acceptance of Christ as personal savior brings salvation.

Not being nice. (attitude)

Not doing good things. (works)

Not wishing for the best. ("hoping")

Only belief in Christ is the Way.


MAF info, as to what they believe:

http://www.maf.org/about/doctrine.html

 

[wms]

God expects us to be good stewards, and work with the framework of organizations that serve Him, and follow the rules and requests that they have arrived at in a prayerful manner.

I'm not going to say don't support an organization which helps to provide for the needs of others or helps to spread the Gospel. But I will say that there is no expectation of God for a framework of organizations. There is no Biblical instruction or pattern for formal christian organizations.

There were those who gave from their abundance, such as Aquilla and Pricilla who provided their home as a church; those who worked to provide for their own needs as Paul did making tents so that he would not be indebted to men, Acts 18:3, 2 Thess 3:8; and as he instructed Timothy to do also . There was also an appeal for the needs of believers in 1 Corr 16, 2 Corr 8:1- 9:15 and Phil 1:5. But there is no example of formal fund-raising or the personal soliciting of funds, just the generosity of the believers giving for the needs of others as the Lord would lead and as needs of others were made known. After all, it's all His anyway. He uses it to meet our needs, and provides an excess to distribute what is His to others.

Gallatians 6:6&10 give the priority.
1 Those who teach (preachers and missionaries)
2 Those of the faith in need
3 All who are needy

The Lord looked upon all in need and had compassion on them, and that should be our heart in giving.

 

[mattfish42]

Turbo, thanks for the links. Looks like I've got a few hundred hours to go before I'm eligible.

Anyone else here ever fly for MAF, JAARS, or similar organizations? Got any stories, advice, warnings, or other useful information?

 

[Snoopy58]

Timebuilder -- check your PMs.

 

[Timebuilder]

But I will say that there is no expectation of God for a framework of organizations. There is no Biblical instruction or pattern for formal christian organizations.

No, but there is the example of Christ and His disciples, the very first "Christian Organization." All had become in one accord. They worked together to spread the Gospel. Along the way, many gave them sleeping quarters, food, and a little money for expenses, just like churches today support their missionaries by raising money.

Most Christian organizations look to be a benefit to nonbelievers as a method of outreach. While there is no prohibition against supporting non-Christian organizations (such as my support of the Air Safety Foundation) we need to recognize that previously mentioned warning against being "unequally yoked" together with nonbelievers. Specifically, we are led to seek out Christian fellowship, and welcome others to follow Christ.

 

[EMcx2]

Paying $5200 to fly crappy planes in crappy places

\\Is that pay-for-job or pay-for- training.

 

[Timebuilder]

It is called churches supporting missions, and pilots who are called to do the work being willing to fly the planes.

Not everthing in life is done to place yourself in the next higher tax bracket. Some things are important enough to do them because they need to be done.