MAF/pilot shortage

[Snoopy58]

I think it's safe to say that Christians everywhere are embarrassed by your views,

And you'd be wrong. Their views on the Bible and salvation by grace through faith in Christ are absolutely mainstream. While some liberal churches and seminaries have abandoned the Bible as the source of God's truth to man, mainstream Christianity is based on the Bible as God's Word, accurate & authoritative. And the guys you mock are explaining what it says, and what those who believe it, belive.

All of the arguments you have against other Christian religions could easily be turned against Evangelical Christianity to show that it's actually a godless cult.

You can spin any way you want, but the simple fact is that what the LDS & the JW's believe is inconsistent with what the Bible teaches, and mainstream Roman Catholicism has a lot of teachings that are extra-Biblical. If you accept the Bible as accurate & authoritative, then the LDS & JWs & RC's are going to be at odds with what you accept as Truth. But, if for you, truth is relative and "all paths lead to God" and the Bible can be "take it or leave it," then of course any claims to absolute standards of truth make no sense. If you refuse to accept an absolute standard of right & wrong from the God who created the universe, then you'll always have problems with the Bible and with Christianity. There is no honest way to reconcile the relativism and the Bible.

we accept the differing practices and beliefs of Christians around the world.

Define "Christian." If you will accept anyone who claims to be a Christian as such without any regard to what they actually believe and teach and practice, then the term has little meaning. If you accept as Christian those who believe & follow the Bible, then your statement only makes sense if "differing practices & beliefs" refers to differences of form rather than substance (contemporary music vs traditional, etc). Who is the "we" you refer to?

I would guess that God does too.

If you do not accept the Bible as the accurate & authoritative word of God, then guessing is what you have to go on. Or leaning on whatever seems to make sense to you, which is about the same. Or find some other source of wisdom from God (perhaps the Koran or L. Ron Hubbard), but at that point you should acknowlege where you're coming from.

Or, if you do accept the Bible as what it claims to be, you might have some insigts into what God does and doesn't accept. Timebuilder quoted the relevant passages to you above.

 

[redd]

Seeing they see not, hearing they hear..

There are none so blind as those who cannot see.

This is not about the bible, this is about two posters who commited a breach of ettiquette, were rude, borish, baiting, arrogant and insulting to others.

It is about individuals justifying this behavior by saying they are spreading the gospell and this gives them the right to disrespect and abuse others.

This is accurate reproof and if they have a brain, they should think about it, that is, if their goal really is trying to help people.

This is not about the truth of the Word of God and to what extent individuals or organizations hold it or embody it. This is about walking in wisdom toward others, about respecting others, not about what they need to believe in order to be saved, or walk in as christians. Get it??

There are plenty of discussions here on this board about God and the bible that are thought provoking, informative and interesting, it is just these two tend to drag it down to a personal slanderous level and they do it with such an elitist tone, it really is a shame.

I happen to like God and the bible, and I hate when He gets represented this way.

 

[Timebuilder]

Timebuilder and onthebeach,

I'm puzzled. The last time I was aware of when there were Christians with wild hatred such as yours, was Ulster, Northern Ireland during the Troubles in the 1980s.

More recently, I'm afraid we only have to look as far as the Taliban to find a religious group with such an attitude of exclusivity and rightiousness. Do you guys really believe this stuff? Is this what they teach you in church? I think it's safe to say that Christians everywhere are embarrassed by your views, much like a family that grudgingly recognizes a reletive in prison.

All of the arguments you have against other Christian religions could easily be turned against Evangelical Christianity to show that it's actually a godless cult. No one does, because we accept the differing practices and beliefs of Christians around the world. I would guess that God does too.

Maybe you should give it a try!

No, that's incorrect.

Cristian belief is based on Christ, the Christ of the Bible. It's His word, and no one else's. If you don't accept that, then you can't be a Christian. It's a simple as that.

Some people find the idea of God's objective truth to be offensive, particularly when viewed through the lens of an ecumenical, politically correct world.

Some people find their only argument in mentioning the Taliban, as if this is some sort of direct comparison, as if when you compare a 1964 Volkswagen and a Porsche you have found an important truth becuase they are both German automobiles.

You can be earnest in your views, and be wrong, or you can be earnest in your views and be right. Humans don't determine that, God DOES. It is essential for you to find that esseence of correctness so that you are no mislead. On a human level, a comparison between the Taliban and Christian teaching should reveal differences so obvious that even a secular person should easily see fruits of the comparison. I don't need to take you by the hand and point out those differences.

So, show me some "hatred" in anything I have said here. There isn't any. There is often compassion, nad sometimes pity, true, and an annoyance when folks who have had the truth explained multiple times still stubbornly cling to a falsehood, sometimes on pupose.

This is not about the bible, this is about two posters who commited a breach of ettiquette, were rude, borish, baiting, arrogant and insulting to others.

Show me where I have done that, my friend. You have a unique opinion, and have no basis to chastise except that you disagree with the sharing of truth.

It is about individuals justifying this behavior by saying they are spreading the gospell and this gives them the right to disrespect and abuse others.

Disrespect and abuse? Have you read some of the stuff that has been directed my way in these threads, and then read my reasoned and kind responses? Maybe not. Trust me, I come from a background where I can more than dish it out, and I have not done so here on this board.

This is accurate reproof and if they have a brain, they should think about it, that is, if their goal really is trying to help people.

My goal in threads like this is to correct the incorrect ideas floating about being shared by people who have not done their homework. Someone asks, I answer. Someone asserts, I correct. I never share an "opinion" on Bible matters, only ideas supported by scripture. This seems cruel and harsh to some modern folks, and you may be among them. Sharing the truth doesn not, however, make me mean or abusive.

This is not about the truth of the Word of God and to what extent individuals or organizations hold it or embody it. This is about walking in wisdom toward others, about respecting others, not about what they need to believe in order to be saved, or walk in as christians. Get it??

If you feel this way, review what the Bible says about how people are offended, and why, starting with the jews of the old testament. Most offen, offense cannot be avoided.

There are plenty of discussions here on this board about God and the bible that are thought provoking, informative and interesting, it is just these two tend to drag it down to a personal slanderous level and they do it with such an elitist tone, it really is a shame.

What is a shame is those who can read a Bible and fail to get the message.

It isn't inclusive of other beliefs.

It isn't ecumenical.

It isn't welcoming of sin.

It isn't one of many paths or equal beliefs.

It is tuth.

It is solid.

It is the sole word of God.

And it should not be hidden for fear of offending.


But as I said, find me a part where I have been mean or abusive, and not truthful. Heck, just find the mean or abusive part.

I'll check back tonight.

 

[EagleRJ]

Cristian belief is based on Christ, the Christ of the Bible. It's His word, and no one else's. If you don't accept that, then you can't be a Christian. It's a simple as that.

I guess I don't follow your drift here. Which Christian denominations do not believe in Jesus Christ and His teachings?

Some people find the idea of God's objective truth to be offensive, particularly when viewed through the lens of an ecumenical, politically correct world.

It's all in the interpretation. There are a lot of immoral, dangerous, or illegal things you could do and justify your actions using the Word. We've seen plenty of examples of this recently.

Example-
Mark 16:18
They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them...

I'm sure you are aware that there are several individual churches whose followers dance with rattlesnakes and drink poisons to prove their faith. Some of them are injured or killed every year.
If you do not take up serpents as the Bible teaches, are you a weak Christian? Or do you, like most other Christians, recognize that it's an analogy for facing everyday threats with your faith?

Some people find their only argument in mentioning the Taliban, as if this is some sort of direct comparison, as if when you compare a 1964 Volkswagen and a Porsche you have found an important truth becuase they are both German automobiles.

You can be earnest in your views, and be wrong, or you can be earnest in your views and be right. Humans don't determine that, God DOES. It is essential for you to find that esseence of correctness so that you are no mislead. On a human level, a comparison between the Taliban and Christian teaching should reveal differences so obvious that even a secular person should easily see fruits of the comparison. I don't need to take you by the hand and point out those differences.

In terms of intolerance for other denominations of your own faith, a comparison to the Taliban is valid and appropriate. There's no violence directed by you towards other Christians- only distaste, or "pity" as you put it. Like I said though, one needs to go back only 20 years in Northern Ireland to find the fruits of this destructive attitude of exclusivity and rightiousness.

So, show me some "hatred" in anything I have said here. There isn't any. There is often compassion, nad sometimes pity, true, and an annoyance when folks who have had the truth explained multiple times still stubbornly cling to a falsehood, sometimes on pupose.

See? Those who's faith differs from yours are "cling[ing] to a falsehood". We should look to you for guidance on what the Bible really teaches, since you have the only true insight into God's Word. Arrogant.

What is a shame is those who can read a Bible and fail to get the message.

It isn't inclusive of other beliefs.

It isn't ecumenical.

It isn't welcoming of sin.

It isn't one of many paths or equal beliefs.

It is tuth.

It is solid.

It is the sole word of God.

And it should not be hidden for fear of offending.

I think we're all in agreement there. Interpretation of God's Word and tailoring your life to live within Christian doctrines is the foundation of Christianity. It's just that we don't need your help in achieving that!

-Peace

 

[TurboS7]

I stand shoulder to shoulder with timebuilder and on the beach.

 

[Timebuilder]

I guess I don't follow your drift here. Which Christian denominations do not believe in Jesus Christ and His teachings?

Well, we can start here, since this was a high profile event. The Bible says it is the inspired word of God. Mr. Robinson said he believed it was the word of God, but not "the words of God," which means that was his way of explaining how he thinks he can avoid the Biblical prohibition against homosexuality. Apparently, there is an entire church that claims to be "Christian" that agrees with him enough to make him a bishop, much less have any thought of taking his collar.


Gay Episcopal Bishop Elected
by 365Gay.com Newscenter Staff



Posted: June 8, 2003 12:02 a.m. ET


(Concord, New Hampshire) The Episcopal Church has voted in its first openly gay bishop.

Rev. V. Gene Robinson, 56, was elected Saturday by New Hampshire clergy and lay Episcopalians, beating out three other candidates.

Robinson must still be confirmed by the church's national General Convention next month. It is expected to be the subject of a heated debate as Anglicans worldwide attempt to reconcile church traditionalists and reformers.

Last week the appointment of a gay man as a bishop in England created a maelstrom of dissent among conservative Anglicans (story) and a Blessing Service for a gay couple in British Columbia (story) last month created ripples all the way to the door of the Archbishop of Canterbury the leader of the faith.

In 1998 bishops of the worldwide Anglican Church passed a resolution calling gay sex "incompatible with Scripture." Since then attempts to sidestep the rule have been met with opposition.

Robinson lives with his partner, Mark Andrew, in Weare, New Hampshire and is an assistant to retiring Bishop Douglas Theuner of Concord.
He is a popular preacher at area churches and has been active in local causes such as establishing "Concord Outright," a support group for teenagers.

Before coming out he was married and has two grown children.

Although Robinson is the first gay man to have voted into the position of bishop he is not the first gay bishop in the Episcopal Church.

Former Utah bishop Otis Charles came out in 1993 but only after announcing his retirement.

©365Gay.com® 2003

So, he is living by a false teaching, that by implication the Bible is not to be obeyed, but instead we should just make up our own doctrine when we prefer it to God's.

It's all in the interpretation. There are a lot of immoral, dangerous, or illegal things you could do and justify your actions using the Word. We've seen plenty of examples of this recently.

Example-
Mark 16:18
They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them...

That an excellent example. What does it mean?

It means that a small cult has decided to take a piece of scripture as a commandment, that is, something that should be done, as opposed to understanding it as an example of the kind of power brought by the indwelling holy spirit. By the same token, because Christ and John the Baptist fasted in the desert for weeks on end, should we therefore conclude that we should do likewise?

Heck, I hate camping among scorpions. It's a good thing we don't have to imitate everything in the Bible. It's usually pretty clear that some things are meant to be examples of behavior, and other things are examples of ideas.

Or do you, like most other Christians, recognize that it's an analogy for facing everyday threats with your faith?

Well done. Neither does the scripture

Ephesians 6:11-18
11 "Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. 12 For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places. 13 Therefore take up the whole armor of God, that you may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand. 14 Stand therefore, having girded your waist with truth, having put on the breastplate of righteousness, 15 and having shod your feet with the preparation of the gospel of peace; 16 above all, taking the shield of faith with which you will be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked one. 17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God;"

mean that I should go clanking around looking like a fugitive from a Monty Python movie.

In terms of intolerance for other denominations of your own faith, a comparison to the Taliban is valid and appropriate.

If you have faith in God, and you believe that 2 Timothy 3:16-17 is true, you must also be "intolerant" (how I love that old liberal favorite) of false teachings, false doctrines, and false beliefs. If God is right, and His word is true, then how can other views not consistent with God's word have any value?

The Taliban was a cult from an evil and false teaching that helped to inspire the killing of thousands of innocent lives. Comparing the Taliban to the righteousness of God is like comparing Michael Jackson to Pat Tillman.

There's no violence directed by you towards other Christians- only distaste, or "pity" as you put it.

I pity them because God's heart is broken for them, and they ignore the sacrifice He made as being a "myth." How sad is that? It's "pitiful."

Like I said though, one needs to go back only 20 years in Northern Ireland to find the fruits of this destructive attitude of exclusivity and rightiousness.

No one involved in the "troubles," as they were called, were Biblical Christians. The Catholics weren't, and the protestants were following a liberal Church of England Anglican doctrine. That same church is the Bristish source of the church mentioned above that just created a gay bishop. What does that tell you about Northern Ireland? It tells me it was a political dispute among two groups who divided themselves along "religious" lines, neither of whom were "believers."

See? Those who's faith differs from yours are "cling[ing] to a falsehood". We should look to you for guidance on what the Bible really teaches, since you have the only true insight into God's Word. Arrogant.

Sorry again. Fiirst of all "arrogant" should be spelled "accurate." Second, it makes no difference whatsoever if someone believes as I do. It makes ALL the difference if they believe something that does not come from GOD. That's the difference.

Ecumenical people see different beliefs as a sort of a spiritual "smorgasboard," where it doesn't really matter "how" or "what" you believe, as long as you believe it. This opens the door to a "do it yoursel" spirtuality, where anything goes, such as drinking poison, gay bishops, and flying planes into buildings.

Ecumenical views don't stand up to scripture. The Bible clearly says that it is 100% error free and inspired by God to be precisely what He intends. According to God, we are to spread HIS word, not just "accept" other ideas, nor make up our own as it suits us.

No, you should not look to "me" for guidance on what is true. You should look to the word of God. I have never advocated otherwise, except when I was an unsaved broadcaster. So if you have an argument, it isn't an argument with me. It is an argument with God.

I think we're all in agreement there. Interpretation of God's Word and tailoring your life to live within Christian doctrines is the foundation of Christianity. It's just that we don't need your help in achieving that!

I'm only telling you what the Bible says. What can the Bible be used for? It's the passage mentioned above.

2Timothy 3:16-17

"3:16
All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness,

3:17
that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work."

So, no, I am not ashamed for standing up to false teaching, when as a believer, I am directed to hold my brothers and sisters to account, just as they also hold me to account. If I support a false teaching, using the Bible as the standard, I hope that you too, would correct me.

Does that help you to better understand my position? I hope so.

 

[Cat Driver]

Well, for an aviation forum this one sure takes some weird turns.

And I guess I'm going straight to hell when I die because I just do not believe.

Cat Driver:

 

[Timebuilder]

You're missing the most intersting and important part, Cat.

Until you assume room temperature, you still have a chance at not only being forgiven, which is given without question (because the price has already been paid) but you also are given a joyful and fulfilling eternal life to enjoy without all the crap we have here on earth, in these weak and deteriorating bodies.

Let me ask you: what is the "down side" to believing?

 

[Timebuilder]

Bumped for EagleRJ.

 

[TurboS7]

That is a good sign Cat. Before you can believe you have to admit and know that you are going straight to hell.Romans3:23 That All for sure includes Timebuilder and myself. You are on the right track......