Lynx CA Pay

[ReverseSensing]

Most of us at QX are here for the stability. I think very few, if any people will jump at a long shot like Lynx. If they do, then good, they're probably the same people who will vote for a pay cut.

I think you're probably right.

 

[DashTrash400]

OK, I'll play devil's advocate. Horizon wasn't always the highest paid either, particularly for FOs. Every single captain at Horizon today was hired before the current contract...as recently as 2001 that meant FOs making $18k/year. Are all the current Horizon captains whores because they took the job for so little?

I had trouble with the $50/hr payrates too, until I realized something. 1st year payrates are low throughout the industry - the whole probationary period pay BS. To my mind, 2nd and subsequent year payrates are more relevant to the discussion than the $50/hr number. So are the rigs, cancellation pay (big factor in Q400!) and other work rules. We haven't heard any of this yet, and probably won't until the 1st interviewees start reporting back.

 

[ReverseSensing]

OK, I'll play devil's advocate. Horizon wasn't always the highest paid either, particularly for FOs. Every single captain at Horizon today was hired before the current contract...as recently as 2001 that meant FOs making $18k/year. Are all the current Horizon captains whores because they took the job for so little?

I had trouble with the $50/hr payrates too, until I realized something. 1st year payrates are low throughout the industry - the whole probationary period pay BS. To my mind, 2nd and subsequent year payrates are more relevant to the discussion than the $50/hr number. So are the rigs, cancellation pay (big factor in Q400!) and other work rules. We haven't heard any of this yet, and probably won't until the 1st interviewees start reporting back.

Well, I know you're concerned about the upgrade future here at QX (according to your blog), but I hope you won't consider $50/hour adequate, even if only first year pay, for being the PIC of 74-seat aircraft.

I won't excuse low first year FO pay, period, but it is an unfortunate state of the industry. But $50/hour Q400 captain pay is simply a callous ploy on the part of Lynx because they know they'll get takers. It's pathetic.

I just believe there is some distinction between folks taking an entry-level 121 FO job at $18K and taking a Q400 CA job for $50/hour. So no, I don't think those guys who took FO jobs at QX prior to 2001 are whores.

 

[XJohXJ]

OK, I'll play devil's advocate. Horizon wasn't always the highest paid either, particularly for FOs. Every single captain at Horizon today was hired before the current contract...as recently as 2001 that meant FOs making $18k/year. Are all the current Horizon captains whores because they took the job for so little?

I had trouble with the $50/hr payrates too, until I realized something. 1st year payrates are low throughout the industry - the whole probationary period pay BS. To my mind, 2nd and subsequent year payrates are more relevant to the discussion than the $50/hr number. So are the rigs, cancellation pay (big factor in Q400!) and other work rules. We haven't heard any of this yet, and probably won't until the 1st interviewees start reporting back.

In most careers in our fine nation, and certainly in aviation, absolutely everyone gets screwed ONCE. The job then, is to learn from the experience, and do everything in your power to avoid being screwed twice (or more!).

Whatever the payrates may be, you are only a newbie once.

 

[P-Dawg_QX]

Well, know you're concerned about the upgrade future here at QX (according to your blog), but I hope you won't consider $50/hour adequate, even if only first year pay, for being the PIC of 74-seat aircraft.

I won't excuse low first year FO pay, period, but it is an unfortunate state of the industry. But $50/hour Q400 captain pay is simply a callous ploy on the part of Lynx because they know they'll get takers. It's pathetic.

I just believe there is some distinction between folks taking an entry-level 121 FO job at $18K and taking a Q400 CA job for $50/hour. So no, I don't think those guys who took FO jobs at QX prior to 2001 are whores.

In defense of DashTrash (BTW, kinda harsh giving out his name on the board...you should really edit out those initials), he's got a good point about the whole first year pay thing. If we're gonna judge the whole payscale based on the 1st year CA pay, then we'd better throw UPS and American in there too. UPS is only paying their first year CAs $35 an hour to fly their widebodies, and that's even with a union on property! Now of course everyone knows that there aren't any 1st year CAs at UPS, and the pay increase at Lynx for 2nd year isn't going to be the same as UPS, but it just goes to show you that things aren't always as they seem based soley on 1st year pay.

All that said, It's probably safe to say that the pay at Lynx is going to suck regardless of longevity.

 

[DashTrash400]

Well, [deleted], I know you're concerned about the upgrade future here at QX (according to your blog), but I hope you won't consider $50/hour adequate, even if only first year pay, for being the PIC of 74-seat aircraft.

I won't excuse low first year FO pay, period, but it is an unfortunate state of the industry. But $50/hour Q400 captain pay is simply a callous ploy on the part of Lynx because they know they'll get takers. It's pathetic.

I just believe there is some distinction between folks taking an entry-level 121 FO job at $18K and taking a Q400 CA job for $50/hour. So no, I don't think those guys who took FO jobs at QX prior to 2001 are whores.

I doubt I'll apply to Lynx, but it's moreso the alter-ego issue re: F9 pilots that'd keep me away than a first year payrate. The fact that Frontier essentially ran roughshod over their pilot group on the issue without any negotiation doesn't bode well for Lynx pilots being treated any better. That said, we'll have to wait and see - I'm just not sure that first year payrates tell the whole story at *any* carrier. I mean, CO has 1st year 757 FOs making $30/hr, and I think we agree that 757 FOs are worth a he!! of a lot more.

So you've read my blog & you've probably read my articles in Pegasus...you know how I feel about concessions for growth, whoring oneself out for PIC time, etc. The fact that I'm concerned that upgrade at QX is only going to go up doesn't change that. If I apply anywhere, AS is most likely it.

 

[ReverseSensing]

(BTW, kinda harsh giving out his name on the board...you should really edit out those initials)

You're absolutely right -- that was pointless. I'll edit mine, but unfortunately, he already quoted me, so it won't do a lot of good.

As to your point, there will be 1st year CAs at Lynx, so this is a real issue with real consequences for the industry.

And I know DashTrash is an honorable, very smart guy, and a great writer, who knows what's good for the industry. I just hope he can practice what he intellectually knows is right.

 

[DashTrash400]

kinda harsh giving out his name on the board...you should really edit out those initials

Meh, it was pretty pointless but I don't particularly care...I figure enough people see similarities in my writing here, the union BB, my blog, and the newsletter to figure out who I am.

 

[ReverseSensing]

Meh, it was pretty pointless but I don't particularly care...I figure enough people see similarities in my writing here, the union BB, my blog, and the newsletter to figure out who I am.

I'm sorry about that -- that was a lapse in judgement. I edited my post. I'll contact a mod to get your quote of my post edited.

 

[DashTrash400]

No worries, did it myself.