Lynx CA Pay

[ReverseSensing]

Most of us at QX are here for the stability. I think very few, if any people will jump at a long shot like Lynx. If they do, then good, they're probably the same people who will vote for a pay cut.

I think you're probably right.

 

[DashTrash400]

OK, I'll play devil's advocate. Horizon wasn't always the highest paid either, particularly for FOs. Every single captain at Horizon today was hired before the current contract...as recently as 2001 that meant FOs making $18k/year. Are all the current Horizon captains whores because they took the job for so little?

I had trouble with the $50/hr payrates too, until I realized something. 1st year payrates are low throughout the industry - the whole probationary period pay BS. To my mind, 2nd and subsequent year payrates are more relevant to the discussion than the $50/hr number. So are the rigs, cancellation pay (big factor in Q400!) and other work rules. We haven't heard any of this yet, and probably won't until the 1st interviewees start reporting back.

 

[ReverseSensing]

OK, I'll play devil's advocate. Horizon wasn't always the highest paid either, particularly for FOs. Every single captain at Horizon today was hired before the current contract...as recently as 2001 that meant FOs making $18k/year. Are all the current Horizon captains whores because they took the job for so little?

I had trouble with the $50/hr payrates too, until I realized something. 1st year payrates are low throughout the industry - the whole probationary period pay BS. To my mind, 2nd and subsequent year payrates are more relevant to the discussion than the $50/hr number. So are the rigs, cancellation pay (big factor in Q400!) and other work rules. We haven't heard any of this yet, and probably won't until the 1st interviewees start reporting back.

Well, I know you're concerned about the upgrade future here at QX (according to your blog), but I hope you won't consider $50/hour adequate, even if only first year pay, for being the PIC of 74-seat aircraft.

I won't excuse low first year FO pay, period, but it is an unfortunate state of the industry. But $50/hour Q400 captain pay is simply a callous ploy on the part of Lynx because they know they'll get takers. It's pathetic.

I just believe there is some distinction between folks taking an entry-level 121 FO job at $18K and taking a Q400 CA job for $50/hour. So no, I don't think those guys who took FO jobs at QX prior to 2001 are whores.

 

[XJohXJ]

OK, I'll play devil's advocate. Horizon wasn't always the highest paid either, particularly for FOs. Every single captain at Horizon today was hired before the current contract...as recently as 2001 that meant FOs making $18k/year. Are all the current Horizon captains whores because they took the job for so little?

I had trouble with the $50/hr payrates too, until I realized something. 1st year payrates are low throughout the industry - the whole probationary period pay BS. To my mind, 2nd and subsequent year payrates are more relevant to the discussion than the $50/hr number. So are the rigs, cancellation pay (big factor in Q400!) and other work rules. We haven't heard any of this yet, and probably won't until the 1st interviewees start reporting back.

In most careers in our fine nation, and certainly in aviation, absolutely everyone gets screwed ONCE. The job then, is to learn from the experience, and do everything in your power to avoid being screwed twice (or more!).

Whatever the payrates may be, you are only a newbie once.

 

[P-Dawg_QX]

Well, know you're concerned about the upgrade future here at QX (according to your blog), but I hope you won't consider $50/hour adequate, even if only first year pay, for being the PIC of 74-seat aircraft.

I won't excuse low first year FO pay, period, but it is an unfortunate state of the industry. But $50/hour Q400 captain pay is simply a callous ploy on the part of Lynx because they know they'll get takers. It's pathetic.

I just believe there is some distinction between folks taking an entry-level 121 FO job at $18K and taking a Q400 CA job for $50/hour. So no, I don't think those guys who took FO jobs at QX prior to 2001 are whores.

In defense of DashTrash (BTW, kinda harsh giving out his name on the board...you should really edit out those initials), he's got a good point about the whole first year pay thing. If we're gonna judge the whole payscale based on the 1st year CA pay, then we'd better throw UPS and American in there too. UPS is only paying their first year CAs $35 an hour to fly their widebodies, and that's even with a union on property! Now of course everyone knows that there aren't any 1st year CAs at UPS, and the pay increase at Lynx for 2nd year isn't going to be the same as UPS, but it just goes to show you that things aren't always as they seem based soley on 1st year pay.

All that said, It's probably safe to say that the pay at Lynx is going to suck regardless of longevity.

 

[DashTrash400]

Well, [deleted], I know you're concerned about the upgrade future here at QX (according to your blog), but I hope you won't consider $50/hour adequate, even if only first year pay, for being the PIC of 74-seat aircraft.

I won't excuse low first year FO pay, period, but it is an unfortunate state of the industry. But $50/hour Q400 captain pay is simply a callous ploy on the part of Lynx because they know they'll get takers. It's pathetic.

I just believe there is some distinction between folks taking an entry-level 121 FO job at $18K and taking a Q400 CA job for $50/hour. So no, I don't think those guys who took FO jobs at QX prior to 2001 are whores.

I doubt I'll apply to Lynx, but it's moreso the alter-ego issue re: F9 pilots that'd keep me away than a first year payrate. The fact that Frontier essentially ran roughshod over their pilot group on the issue without any negotiation doesn't bode well for Lynx pilots being treated any better. That said, we'll have to wait and see - I'm just not sure that first year payrates tell the whole story at *any* carrier. I mean, CO has 1st year 757 FOs making $30/hr, and I think we agree that 757 FOs are worth a he!! of a lot more.

So you've read my blog & you've probably read my articles in Pegasus...you know how I feel about concessions for growth, whoring oneself out for PIC time, etc. The fact that I'm concerned that upgrade at QX is only going to go up doesn't change that. If I apply anywhere, AS is most likely it.

 

[ReverseSensing]

(BTW, kinda harsh giving out his name on the board...you should really edit out those initials)

You're absolutely right -- that was pointless. I'll edit mine, but unfortunately, he already quoted me, so it won't do a lot of good.

As to your point, there will be 1st year CAs at Lynx, so this is a real issue with real consequences for the industry.

And I know DashTrash is an honorable, very smart guy, and a great writer, who knows what's good for the industry. I just hope he can practice what he intellectually knows is right.

 

[DashTrash400]

kinda harsh giving out his name on the board...you should really edit out those initials

Meh, it was pretty pointless but I don't particularly care...I figure enough people see similarities in my writing here, the union BB, my blog, and the newsletter to figure out who I am.

 

[ReverseSensing]

Meh, it was pretty pointless but I don't particularly care...I figure enough people see similarities in my writing here, the union BB, my blog, and the newsletter to figure out who I am.

I'm sorry about that -- that was a lapse in judgement. I edited my post. I'll contact a mod to get your quote of my post edited.

 

[DashTrash400]

No worries, did it myself.

 

[Q400 Gear Bitch]

Why would anyone take a Q400 CA job for $50/hour? QX has 400 FOs making nearly $50/hour. Ridiculous.

As far as I'm concerned, anyone who takes a $50/hour Q400 CA slot is waving their arms, jumping up and down, screaming: "I'm a whore! I don't understand the value of my services as the PIC of a 70+ seat aircraft."

I agree that the rate is too low, but it's just one variable in the equation. Based on your post I'm to assume that a displaced rj captain who just moved his or her family to Denver under the guise of a potential 12 year contract with f9, bought a house, has wifey enrolled in cpa classes, muffy in a new school, and junior in that fancy new swim class is a whore because he bails on qx because he or she does not want to commute to pdx to be on reserve for eternity!!! There is life beyond a seniority number, a pay rate and the value of a 70+ seat aircraft rate. I'm not saying they should not be paid more, because they should. I'm saying they may not be the whore you think they are because of their choices.

 

[ReverseSensing]

I agree that the rate is too low, but it's just one variable in the equation. Based on your post I'm to assume that a displaced rj captain who just moved his or her family to Denver under the guise of a potential 12 year contract with f9, bought a house, has wifey enrolled in cpa classes, muffy in a new school, and junior in that fancy new swim class is a whore because he bails on qx because he or she does not want to commute to pdx to be on reserve for eternity!!! There is life beyond a seniority number, a pay rate and the value of a 70+ seat aircraft rate. I'm not saying they should not be paid more, because they should. I'm saying they may not be the whore you think they are because of their choices.

Point taken. "Whore" was poor choice of words and one I normally don't make.

I would hope that someone in the situation you describe would have better opportunities than going to Lynx for $50/hour. But as you say, perhaps, all things considered, they don't.

I apologize for the hyperbole. I stand by my assertion that $50/hour for a 400 CA is bad for the industry. Whether it is good for you, or anyone else, I guess is a question for your own conscience.

 

[Q400 Gear Bitch]

Point taken. "Whore" was poor choice of words and one I normally don't make.

I would hope that someone in the situation you describe would have better opportunities than going to Lynx for $50/hour. But as you say, perhaps, all things considered, they don't.

I apologize for the hyperbole. I stand by my assertion that $50/hour for a 400 CA is bad for the industry. Whether it is good for you, or anyone else, I guess is a question for your own conscience.

Agreed.

 

[jackson]

Fleet size

How many aircraft are they taking?

 

[stooge]

climbto350.com

I love your climbto350 response above the "never forget where you came from"

Makes me wish I never came.

 

[FlyinScotsman]

I agree that the rate is too low, but it's just one variable in the equation. Based on your post I'm to assume that a displaced rj captain who just moved his or her family to Denver under the guise of a potential 12 year contract with f9, bought a house, has wifey enrolled in cpa classes, muffy in a new school, and junior in that fancy new swim class is a whore because he bails on qx because he or she does not want to commute to pdx to be on reserve for eternity!!! There is life beyond a seniority number, a pay rate and the value of a 70+ seat aircraft rate. I'm not saying they should not be paid more, because they should. I'm sayin g they may not be the whore you think they are because of their choices.

A displaced RJ Captain could easily hold a Q400 Capt spot in SEA or PDX and not be on reserve for an eternity and they would definitely make more than 50/hr. If they make the jump to Lynx they are gambling the seniority they have already earned at QX and would take a pay cut. I really don't see that happening, do you?

 

[Q400 Gear Bitch]

A displaced RJ Captain could easily hold a Q400 Capt spot in SEA or PDX and not be on reserve for an eternity and they would definitely make more than 50/hr. If they make the jump to Lynx they are gambling the seniority they have already earned at QX and would take a pay cut. I really don't see that happening, do you?

It wouldnt surprise me to see someone stay in Denver. Maybe not with Lynx, but who knows. I hear they have a good truck driving school out here.

 

[BigShotXJTdrvr]

...CO has 1st year 757 FOs making $30/hr, and I think we agree that 757 FOs are worth a he!! of a lot more.

Actually $30/hr seems just about right for a few of them.

P.S. No I'm not bitter because my first year FO from last year has flown me home in the 737. Not at all.

 

[Cardinal]

It wouldnt surprise me to see someone stay in Denver. Maybe not with Lynx, but who knows. I hear they have a good truck driving school out here.

The truck driving school is actually on 104th Ave, directly on the route from KDEN to Lynx's office park hovell, 9.2 miles away. Gets one thinking: http://www.nationaltruckschool.com/

 

[Cardinal]

P.S. No I'm not bitter because my first year FO from last year has flown me home in the 737. Not at all.

Been there (or close to it). I feel your pain!

 

[hjheitka]

We haven't heard any of this yet, and probably won't until the 1st interviewees start reporting back.

They have interviewed! (not one them btw) First class scheduled for Feb.

 

[DashTrash400]

They have interviewed! (not one them btw) First class scheduled for Feb.

I think they've hired only check airmen so far, but I could be wrong. Any interviewees here? Care to share what Lynx told you concerning 2nd+ yr pay, work rules, etc...? You, uh, did ask, right? :0

 

[hjheitka]

Care to share what Lynx told you concerning 2nd+ yr pay, work rules, etc...? You, uh, did ask, right? :0

Yes I did ask that question (longevity pay).......... at a local group meeting in which a represenative was a guest speaker, was told "dont know yet". However, I think an actual interviewee would have a more accurate response to the question. They have to be out there somewhere!