Lt Bush's direct comission

[HueyPilot]

Clarification

It seems to me that the vast majority of those making assumptions and accusations of G.W. Bush's service in the National Guard have little or no knowledge about the military, and specifically the Guard.

Even people who served on active duty probably can't comment on it accurate because the National Guard and the active military, while seemingly similar, are two worlds apart.

Singlecoil, Bush was never "AWOL". That terms means Absent Without Leave. Not being on flying status is just that...not being on flying status. It's not AWOL. Not showing for traditional Guard weekend "drills" also doesn't necessarily mean you're AWOL either.

One thing you need to understand to make any sense of this is the Guard is VERY flexible when it comes to your civilian occupation. Generally, if your civilian job takes you away from your unit in such a capacity that you can't make your traditional obligation (ie attend unit drill on the weekends), you can either make it up via other ways, or in some cases you can be exempt from attending altogether.

In short, the Guard can't legally force you to give up your civilian occupation just to serve with a particular unit once a month. If Bush left to work on a political campaign in Alabama, and the campaign is legitimate (and it was), then the Texas Air Guard can't force him to come back to serve.

Bush requested to transfer, and that was denied. It was denied NOT because they wanted Bush to come back to Texas, but because Bush was an F-102 pilot, and he wasn't trained to fulfill any other career field. Plus he requested to transfer to the Air Force Reserve, which is a totally different entity. AFRes is a Federal organization, whereas the TXANG is a state organization. Bush received a direct commission (which is legal and not uncommon in the Guard), but that commission was a state commission with Federal recognition. In other words, he was a commissioned officer in the TXANG, but the federal government recognized his authority as such. However, he did not possess a federal full commission. So he was ineligible to serve as a commissioned officer in the AFRes.

I know, it sounds sketchy to some, but that's the way it works. We had a guy who was direct commissioned in the LA ARNG back in the late 1990s, and after flying helicopters for a while he wanted to fly airplanes. He couldn't go to the Reserves because he held a state commission. He couldn't attend federal OCS/OTS (Officer Candidate School) because you can't hold a commission of any kind prior to entry. So his only choice was to transfer to the LAANG to fly F-15s, which he did.

As for not flying the last two years, that's perfectly fine. We had a few people who chose to pursue other things, both in the Guard and in their civilian jobs. One guy transferred to a ground unit so he could make more time to attend law school. Another went on to the medical side of things to be a flight surgeon. Both guys had their flight status suspended because their physicals lapsed, and I'm sure they'd have a piece of paper just like Bush's that says so. But it doesn't mean they were in trouble...it just means they are no longer on flying status and here's the reason why. That flying status report doesn't have the space nor reason to delve into deeper subjects like "officer transferred to another state due to personal obligations"...it simply states "failure to accomplish physical". Which was the DIRECT reason why their flight status was canceled, but not the whole picture.

As for not showing...one friend of mine moved to Mississippi to become the manager of a new Sears store up there. He talked about maybe flying with a MS Guard unit, but when he got up there he didn't have time and basically did his Guard duty in bits and pieces. I don't know how he did it specifically, but he never showed up at any of our unit meetings, nor did he fly with us anymore. And he still had 1 year left in his obligation. Last I heard, he's in the inactive Guard. He was never in trouble.

As for making up the time, there are a million ways to do it. It depends on your commander and what they are willing to do to accomodate you. I've even seen units go so far as to simply release a person entirely. When I was enlisted, we had a guy move to Michigan and he simply "got out" of his enlistment and went directly to the inactive Guard because he didn't have any way of making it up to us.

In conclusion, I don't find anything wrong about Bush's service. Nothing. I was in the Guard for 8 years, and while his service isn't necessarily outstanding, it isn't the shameful record his critics make it out to be. Most of the comments I've seen regarding his service show basic lack of understanding when it comes to military service. It's like everyone who comments on his "record" acts like they are exposing something, yet they themselves don't understand any of what they're talking about. And his medical records? Those are private, and aren't available to the public. You can get into my personnel records and read my performance reports, etc, but you can't read my medical records, nor would I want you to. So just because I don't want you snooping through my medical records, does that immediately indicate I had some drug problem? No. And I seriously doubt any of you Bush critics would like anyone reading your medical history either.

 

[HueyPilot]

One more thing

Oh, I wanted to add...one story I read said that they felt Bush stopped flying because of his alcohol abuse, and he did it just in time to avoid "mandatory drug and alcohol tests" that were newly required.

I've never had an alcohol test in nearly 12 years of military service. If they tested for that, half the pilots in the military would fail! Alcohol abuse isn't necessarily grounds for disciplinary action. You may lose your flight status, but you're not going to go to jail if you "test positive" for alcohol (which I already mentioned they don't test for).

 

[HueyPilot]

More Stuff, Again

I'm NOT a diehard Bush fan. But at the same time, I can't stand smear campaigns. I read coil's post about the elder Bush's shootdown in WWII, saying it was unfortunate for his other two crewmen.

Then I read more on it and found a link to a website about Bush Jr's service (critical of it), and there was a page about Bush Sr's service and how some claim he jumped from the Avenger in fear and left his two crewmen to die in the impact.

It made me very mad, because it was clear that they were either very misinformed, or they were outright lying to smear the Bush family. One of the two other crewmen DID in fact get out of the airplane, and his body was found in his harness, but his chute failed to open properly. The other guy may have died or was incapacitated from injuries received during the hit.

In all honesty, I HOPE TO GOD I never have to run for public office. Those that, for whatever reason, didn't like me would use anything that sounded negative in my record to smear me. I can see it now....:

He had to get rechecked in the Huey THREE times! He must have been a poor pilot....his medical clearance expired for a MONTH! What physical problems was he hiding? Why didn't he get a physical as required by regulation? He FAILED an evaluation in pilot training, more evidence that he wasn't the great pilot he acts like he is...

All that could come up, because I lost currency in the UH-1 three times...twice due to the National Guard's failure to fund our flying hour program for 2-3 months at a time, and once because the UH-1 fleet was grounded for 4 months. I lost my medical clearance because the physician we contracted to do flight physicals couldn't schedule me until a month after my clearance expired because the Guard had an accounting problem and couldn't pay him. And I failed a checkride, but the average pilot training student failed at least one, sometimes two or more checkrides (and I graduated as distinguished graduate).

See how things can be twisted to serve a purpose?

 

[Singlecoil]

Once again, and hopefully for the last time, I NEVER SAID HE WAS AWOL, so kindly stop inferring that I made that statement. My point is that he CAN'T REMEMBER WHAT HE DID in Alabama or in Texas after the fact.
I raised the point about the elder Bush because until a few months ago I never realized that others in his airplane died on that mission as I'm sure many others were unaware. The story I had heard was that he had been shot down and was a hero. Surely it is relevant that there were others on the mission in his aircraft that weren't decorated and were killed.
It reminds me of JFK who managed to have his boat sheared in half by a Japanese Destroyer and have some of his men killed, but his father put him up for the Medal of Honor. He didn't get that medal but was awarded a lessor one none the less. Sons of privilege do get special treatment in this country. John McCain was the son of an Admiral and was offered an early release by the Vietnamese because of that but he turned it down knowing it was a PR ploy by the enemy. I have the utmost respect for John McCain, even though I am an airline pilot and he has made it very clear that he is anti-labor in his pursuit of the "baseball" arbitration legislation to supplant the Railway Labor Act.

I long for the day when we can elect a President who is above reproach. Clinton lied and will forever be remembered for that. The Bush Administration has repeatedly lied to the American people and will certainly be remember for that, though you won't see it reported on television. Their strategy has been to lie when asked poignant questions until the news cycle ends. The press then never re-raises those questions weeks later when the truth leaks out. For instance, the Clinton Whitehouse trashed computer equipment and stole china off Air Force One when Bush was declared the President. We all know the story that Ari Fleischer repeatedly told us. The fact that this did not occur did not make the news. How about the fact that Bush had to flee to a bunker under fighter escort in Nebraska on 9/11? Fleischer said that they had intercepts that the terrorists knew the "secret" call sign of Air Force One. Also a lie. That was a spin job so the president wouldn't look weak. Don't tell me the secret service ordered that he go to the bunker, the President is the Commander in Chief. He could have stayed aloft under fighter escort and been refueled until Andrews was deemed safe.
How about the Viking flight to the Lincoln? We all know that the White House said that the ship was too far off shore for a helicopter. Also a lie, as we all know. Don't tell me he's the Commander in Chief and he's entitled to get there how he pleases, of course he is. He doesn't have to lie about it.
Lastly, we have the developing story of the WMD in Iraq.
I am an American. I attacked Iraq. I told the world that their Weapons of Mass Destruction were an imminent threat to my country. I am not the only one that is now questioning the integrity of my elected leaders that pled this case on my behalf. Especially since Paul Wolfowitz and Donald Rumsfeld wrote a letter to Clinton in 1998 saying we should attack Iraq then. Especially since on the afternoon of 9/11, Rumsfeld's notes show that he wanted to link "U.B.L. to S.H", well before all the facts were in.

One thing I can be accused of is thread creep, and for that I apologize.

 

[Spur]

How about the fact that Bush had to flee to a bunker under fighter escort in Nebraska on 9/11?

1. You dont know what you are talking about. Offutt AFB has all the main command and control facilities to run a war. It is where you want to be if you are going to lead the country during an attack.

2. You dont understanding one **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** thing about the military, and reading this board is obviously not helping. You are demonstrating your ignorance and making a total fool of yourself, which, of course is your God given right.

3. It is easy for those who have never served their country to make accusations against those who have... trying to minimize their service possibly due to feelings of guilt and inadequacy for being the low-life users they are.

 

[Singlecoil]

1. You dont know what you are talking about. Offutt AFB has all the main command and control facilities to run a war. It is where you want to be if you are going to lead the country during an attack.

That would be the statement Ari Fleischer should have made, rather than making up a bunch of crap that there was a threat called in against Air Force One. Didn't happen.

By the way, you called me a "low-life user". You are correct, I do eat fish and the occasional mollusk.

 

[Chunk]

Dude....it's called the "fog of war". Messages get crossed, confused, and sometimes are completely wrong.

Doesn't matter anyway, the night of the 11th, he slept in his own bed. How is that running away?

Chunk

**added** Oh, and another thing; the USSS has very strict protocols and procedures during time of war and sometimes the president doesn't have much to say in the matter. Obviously, he is still the CinC, but I imagine they are quite persuasive and demanding.

 

[Singlecoil]

I have to ask, who is that hottie on your avatar?

 

[h25b]

I just wanted to thank "HueyPilot" for chiming in with his obvious insight to this discussion. I fly with some ex-military pilots (including one former AFR Squadron Commander) on regular basis and it's easy to understand how GB II's record can be easily twisted in to a smear campaign by those who simply are ignorant of (or fail to include) the way the military actually conducts its daily business.

By the way, for disclosure purposes, I say this not as Democrat or Republican. But as a voter VERY tired of the negative rhetoric conducted by BOTH sides. It's getting to the point where I'm expecting the, "but... my Daddy can beat up your Daddy..." any day now.

 

[Spur]

By the way, you called me a "low-life user". You are correct, I do eat fish and the occasional mollusk.

Well, although I didn't specifically apply the term to you, rather to those who invented the lies and twisted truth into falsehood, if you don't mind it...

 

[HueyPilot]

Fairness and the military

Singlecoil:

You seem to miss the point about Bush Sr being awarded a DFC for his actions in WWII when he lost his aircraft. You point out that the fact he was awarded the honor, but his other two crewmen were not is an example of how the "rich kid" always gets the credit.

That's not why Bush got the medal and the others did not. Bush was the pilot of the aircraft, and thus in command of the aircraft. As per military tradition, typically the pilot in command gets the higher award unless they decide to give the award to the entire crew, or unless a specific crew member performs a specifically heroic act. Here are a few examples I know of off the top of my head that demonstrates this (and points out how the awarding of medals isn't necessarily a "fair" process):

Michael Novosel was a Chief Warrant Officer 4, and pilot-in-command of a UH-1 medical evacuation (medevac) helicopter in Vietnam. He repeatedly flew his battle-damaged helicopter into harms way and eventually rescued 29 wounded South Vietnamese soldiers. He was unhurt, but that action resulted in the Army awarding him the Medal of Honor.

Charles L. Kelly was also a PIC of a medevac UH-1, and was enroute to a hot landing zone to pick up wounded ARVN troops. Inbound, he was told he should abandon the approach because the LZ was too dangerous. He is well known amongst medevac crews in the Army, and his "Dustoff" callsign soon became the adopted nickname of all medevac flights. His last words became the unofficial motto of the medical evacuation community. After being told to go around and avoid the hot LZ, he said "When I have your wounded...". He was cut off in mid-sentence by a bullet which killed him instantly, and his helicopter rolled over and crashed with the loss of all aboard. He was awarded the Distinguished Service Cross (second to the Medal of Honor).

My own grandfather was seriously wounded as an infantry platoon leader in Korea, when a soldier from his platoon was hit by enemy machine gun fire and left in an exposed area. He rushed out of the cover and dragged him to safety, in the course of the rescue he himself was hit by that very same machine gun. He was hospitalized for several months, and asked to return to service in Korea (which he did for another year). He got a Bronze Star.

You see, when an aircraft performs a particularly risky mission, the whole crew works to make it happen. But it's the PIC who makes the decisions, and ensures they press on. So typically they get the higher honors. If it's any comfort, Bush's crewmates at least got a Purple Heart...in itself a pretty high decoration. I'm not sure if they received any other citation. In the above examples, two pilots did almost identically brave things, and one paid with his life while the other escaped with a shot up helicopter. Yet they guy who lived got the MOH. Go figure.

 

[Singlecoil]

Thanks Huey for pointing that out. In the recent Gulf War CNN had on a Lt. Col. from one of the tank units that had just been awarded the silver star. I was kind of wondering if that was more of a unit citation rather than for individual achievement. They didn't explain what the medal was for exactly. My grandfather landed on Omaha Beach and later earned the silver star, and my father flew in the Air Force, so I am definitely not "anti-military" by any stretch of the imagination.

 

[VFR on Top]

Re: back in those days

Some have accused him of being a draft dodger, I do not see how joining the military could be considered draft dodging. .... My 1966 AOCS class had about 10% draft dodgers in it, guys who could not get into OCS at Newport because of the waiting list, but were in draft status and physically qualified for flight duty so they went to Pensacola, got their commission and DORed into some stateside billet.

Funny, first you say you don't see how someone joining the guard can be called a draft dodger, then you go on to tell us about the draft dodgers you were in AOCS with.

People who flocked to the guard during the draft--especially the children of powerful politicians--deserve to be called "draft dodgers" every bit as much as Clinton did.

 

[pilotyip]

Draft Dodger/avoider definition

I can see how that doesn't really make sense say GWB was not a dodger, but saying the guys in my Navy class were. I guess there are two meanings, one is avoidance of military service which non of my class mates nor GWB did, which would include going into the service to not get drafted, i.e. draft avoider, I might even fit that, because I did not want to get drafted and serve in the infantry, so like GWB, and my classmates I volunteered for military service, Bill Clinton did not do any service in the military and there is a big difference, he was a military servcie avoider. You are young, guessing by your flight time, you were not involved in personal decisions effecting your life during the mid to late 60's. Therefore you placing a judgment on someone else's actions during that time period is like you judging Truman on dropping the A bomb. You were not there, you did not have to make the decision.

 

[Spur]

I guess I must be a draft dodger too... seein as I never even registered at age 18. Instead I joined the air force (cunning move on my part). Well, the government finally caught up with me at age 22. See, I was down on the mexican border... little installation near Del Rio, TX (Guess it took them so long 'cause they always start looking in Canada) when Hefe (aka my flight commander) told me the selective service was hot on my trail and I'd better register before it was too late. Well, at that point, I was a little older and had wised up a little, and was thinkin of startin a family one day. I didn't want to drag them through a life on the run, so I finally gave in and signed up for the draft... Man, I was sooooo close.

Guess I'd better stay away from public office.