Lt Bush's direct comission

[HueyPilot]

Clarification

It seems to me that the vast majority of those making assumptions and accusations of G.W. Bush's service in the National Guard have little or no knowledge about the military, and specifically the Guard.

Even people who served on active duty probably can't comment on it accurate because the National Guard and the active military, while seemingly similar, are two worlds apart.

Singlecoil, Bush was never "AWOL". That terms means Absent Without Leave. Not being on flying status is just that...not being on flying status. It's not AWOL. Not showing for traditional Guard weekend "drills" also doesn't necessarily mean you're AWOL either.

One thing you need to understand to make any sense of this is the Guard is VERY flexible when it comes to your civilian occupation. Generally, if your civilian job takes you away from your unit in such a capacity that you can't make your traditional obligation (ie attend unit drill on the weekends), you can either make it up via other ways, or in some cases you can be exempt from attending altogether.

In short, the Guard can't legally force you to give up your civilian occupation just to serve with a particular unit once a month. If Bush left to work on a political campaign in Alabama, and the campaign is legitimate (and it was), then the Texas Air Guard can't force him to come back to serve.

Bush requested to transfer, and that was denied. It was denied NOT because they wanted Bush to come back to Texas, but because Bush was an F-102 pilot, and he wasn't trained to fulfill any other career field. Plus he requested to transfer to the Air Force Reserve, which is a totally different entity. AFRes is a Federal organization, whereas the TXANG is a state organization. Bush received a direct commission (which is legal and not uncommon in the Guard), but that commission was a state commission with Federal recognition. In other words, he was a commissioned officer in the TXANG, but the federal government recognized his authority as such. However, he did not possess a federal full commission. So he was ineligible to serve as a commissioned officer in the AFRes.

I know, it sounds sketchy to some, but that's the way it works. We had a guy who was direct commissioned in the LA ARNG back in the late 1990s, and after flying helicopters for a while he wanted to fly airplanes. He couldn't go to the Reserves because he held a state commission. He couldn't attend federal OCS/OTS (Officer Candidate School) because you can't hold a commission of any kind prior to entry. So his only choice was to transfer to the LAANG to fly F-15s, which he did.

As for not flying the last two years, that's perfectly fine. We had a few people who chose to pursue other things, both in the Guard and in their civilian jobs. One guy transferred to a ground unit so he could make more time to attend law school. Another went on to the medical side of things to be a flight surgeon. Both guys had their flight status suspended because their physicals lapsed, and I'm sure they'd have a piece of paper just like Bush's that says so. But it doesn't mean they were in trouble...it just means they are no longer on flying status and here's the reason why. That flying status report doesn't have the space nor reason to delve into deeper subjects like "officer transferred to another state due to personal obligations"...it simply states "failure to accomplish physical". Which was the DIRECT reason why their flight status was canceled, but not the whole picture.

As for not showing...one friend of mine moved to Mississippi to become the manager of a new Sears store up there. He talked about maybe flying with a MS Guard unit, but when he got up there he didn't have time and basically did his Guard duty in bits and pieces. I don't know how he did it specifically, but he never showed up at any of our unit meetings, nor did he fly with us anymore. And he still had 1 year left in his obligation. Last I heard, he's in the inactive Guard. He was never in trouble.

As for making up the time, there are a million ways to do it. It depends on your commander and what they are willing to do to accomodate you. I've even seen units go so far as to simply release a person entirely. When I was enlisted, we had a guy move to Michigan and he simply "got out" of his enlistment and went directly to the inactive Guard because he didn't have any way of making it up to us.

In conclusion, I don't find anything wrong about Bush's service. Nothing. I was in the Guard for 8 years, and while his service isn't necessarily outstanding, it isn't the shameful record his critics make it out to be. Most of the comments I've seen regarding his service show basic lack of understanding when it comes to military service. It's like everyone who comments on his "record" acts like they are exposing something, yet they themselves don't understand any of what they're talking about. And his medical records? Those are private, and aren't available to the public. You can get into my personnel records and read my performance reports, etc, but you can't read my medical records, nor would I want you to. So just because I don't want you snooping through my medical records, does that immediately indicate I had some drug problem? No. And I seriously doubt any of you Bush critics would like anyone reading your medical history either.

 

[HueyPilot]

One more thing

Oh, I wanted to add...one story I read said that they felt Bush stopped flying because of his alcohol abuse, and he did it just in time to avoid "mandatory drug and alcohol tests" that were newly required.

I've never had an alcohol test in nearly 12 years of military service. If they tested for that, half the pilots in the military would fail! Alcohol abuse isn't necessarily grounds for disciplinary action. You may lose your flight status, but you're not going to go to jail if you "test positive" for alcohol (which I already mentioned they don't test for).

 

[HueyPilot]

More Stuff, Again

I'm NOT a diehard Bush fan. But at the same time, I can't stand smear campaigns. I read coil's post about the elder Bush's shootdown in WWII, saying it was unfortunate for his other two crewmen.

Then I read more on it and found a link to a website about Bush Jr's service (critical of it), and there was a page about Bush Sr's service and how some claim he jumped from the Avenger in fear and left his two crewmen to die in the impact.

It made me very mad, because it was clear that they were either very misinformed, or they were outright lying to smear the Bush family. One of the two other crewmen DID in fact get out of the airplane, and his body was found in his harness, but his chute failed to open properly. The other guy may have died or was incapacitated from injuries received during the hit.

In all honesty, I HOPE TO GOD I never have to run for public office. Those that, for whatever reason, didn't like me would use anything that sounded negative in my record to smear me. I can see it now....:

He had to get rechecked in the Huey THREE times! He must have been a poor pilot....his medical clearance expired for a MONTH! What physical problems was he hiding? Why didn't he get a physical as required by regulation? He FAILED an evaluation in pilot training, more evidence that he wasn't the great pilot he acts like he is...

All that could come up, because I lost currency in the UH-1 three times...twice due to the National Guard's failure to fund our flying hour program for 2-3 months at a time, and once because the UH-1 fleet was grounded for 4 months. I lost my medical clearance because the physician we contracted to do flight physicals couldn't schedule me until a month after my clearance expired because the Guard had an accounting problem and couldn't pay him. And I failed a checkride, but the average pilot training student failed at least one, sometimes two or more checkrides (and I graduated as distinguished graduate).

See how things can be twisted to serve a purpose?

 

[Singlecoil]

Once again, and hopefully for the last time, I NEVER SAID HE WAS AWOL, so kindly stop inferring that I made that statement. My point is that he CAN'T REMEMBER WHAT HE DID in Alabama or in Texas after the fact.
I raised the point about the elder Bush because until a few months ago I never realized that others in his airplane died on that mission as I'm sure many others were unaware. The story I had heard was that he had been shot down and was a hero. Surely it is relevant that there were others on the mission in his aircraft that weren't decorated and were killed.
It reminds me of JFK who managed to have his boat sheared in half by a Japanese Destroyer and have some of his men killed, but his father put him up for the Medal of Honor. He didn't get that medal but was awarded a lessor one none the less. Sons of privilege do get special treatment in this country. John McCain was the son of an Admiral and was offered an early release by the Vietnamese because of that but he turned it down knowing it was a PR ploy by the enemy. I have the utmost respect for John McCain, even though I am an airline pilot and he has made it very clear that he is anti-labor in his pursuit of the "baseball" arbitration legislation to supplant the Railway Labor Act.

I long for the day when we can elect a President who is above reproach. Clinton lied and will forever be remembered for that. The Bush Administration has repeatedly lied to the American people and will certainly be remember for that, though you won't see it reported on television. Their strategy has been to lie when asked poignant questions until the news cycle ends. The press then never re-raises those questions weeks later when the truth leaks out. For instance, the Clinton Whitehouse trashed computer equipment and stole china off Air Force One when Bush was declared the President. We all know the story that Ari Fleischer repeatedly told us. The fact that this did not occur did not make the news. How about the fact that Bush had to flee to a bunker under fighter escort in Nebraska on 9/11? Fleischer said that they had intercepts that the terrorists knew the "secret" call sign of Air Force One. Also a lie. That was a spin job so the president wouldn't look weak. Don't tell me the secret service ordered that he go to the bunker, the President is the Commander in Chief. He could have stayed aloft under fighter escort and been refueled until Andrews was deemed safe.
How about the Viking flight to the Lincoln? We all know that the White House said that the ship was too far off shore for a helicopter. Also a lie, as we all know. Don't tell me he's the Commander in Chief and he's entitled to get there how he pleases, of course he is. He doesn't have to lie about it.
Lastly, we have the developing story of the WMD in Iraq.
I am an American. I attacked Iraq. I told the world that their Weapons of Mass Destruction were an imminent threat to my country. I am not the only one that is now questioning the integrity of my elected leaders that pled this case on my behalf. Especially since Paul Wolfowitz and Donald Rumsfeld wrote a letter to Clinton in 1998 saying we should attack Iraq then. Especially since on the afternoon of 9/11, Rumsfeld's notes show that he wanted to link "U.B.L. to S.H", well before all the facts were in.

One thing I can be accused of is thread creep, and for that I apologize.

 

[Spur]

How about the fact that Bush had to flee to a bunker under fighter escort in Nebraska on 9/11?

1. You dont know what you are talking about. Offutt AFB has all the main command and control facilities to run a war. It is where you want to be if you are going to lead the country during an attack.

2. You dont understanding one **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** thing about the military, and reading this board is obviously not helping. You are demonstrating your ignorance and making a total fool of yourself, which, of course is your God given right.

3. It is easy for those who have never served their country to make accusations against those who have... trying to minimize their service possibly due to feelings of guilt and inadequacy for being the low-life users they are.

 

[Singlecoil]

1. You dont know what you are talking about. Offutt AFB has all the main command and control facilities to run a war. It is where you want to be if you are going to lead the country during an attack.

That would be the statement Ari Fleischer should have made, rather than making up a bunch of crap that there was a threat called in against Air Force One. Didn't happen.

By the way, you called me a "low-life user". You are correct, I do eat fish and the occasional mollusk.

 

[Chunk]

Dude....it's called the "fog of war". Messages get crossed, confused, and sometimes are completely wrong.

Doesn't matter anyway, the night of the 11th, he slept in his own bed. How is that running away?

Chunk

**added** Oh, and another thing; the USSS has very strict protocols and procedures during time of war and sometimes the president doesn't have much to say in the matter. Obviously, he is still the CinC, but I imagine they are quite persuasive and demanding.

 

[Singlecoil]

I have to ask, who is that hottie on your avatar?

 

[h25b]

I just wanted to thank "HueyPilot" for chiming in with his obvious insight to this discussion. I fly with some ex-military pilots (including one former AFR Squadron Commander) on regular basis and it's easy to understand how GB II's record can be easily twisted in to a smear campaign by those who simply are ignorant of (or fail to include) the way the military actually conducts its daily business.

By the way, for disclosure purposes, I say this not as Democrat or Republican. But as a voter VERY tired of the negative rhetoric conducted by BOTH sides. It's getting to the point where I'm expecting the, "but... my Daddy can beat up your Daddy..." any day now.

 

[Spur]

By the way, you called me a "low-life user". You are correct, I do eat fish and the occasional mollusk.

Well, although I didn't specifically apply the term to you, rather to those who invented the lies and twisted truth into falsehood, if you don't mind it...

 

[HueyPilot]

Fairness and the military

Singlecoil:

You seem to miss the point about Bush Sr being awarded a DFC for his actions in WWII when he lost his aircraft. You point out that the fact he was awarded the honor, but his other two crewmen were not is an example of how the "rich kid" always gets the credit.

That's not why Bush got the medal and the others did not. Bush was the pilot of the aircraft, and thus in command of the aircraft. As per military tradition, typically the pilot in command gets the higher award unless they decide to give the award to the entire crew, or unless a specific crew member performs a specifically heroic act. Here are a few examples I know of off the top of my head that demonstrates this (and points out how the awarding of medals isn't necessarily a "fair" process):

Michael Novosel was a Chief Warrant Officer 4, and pilot-in-command of a UH-1 medical evacuation (medevac) helicopter in Vietnam. He repeatedly flew his battle-damaged helicopter into harms way and eventually rescued 29 wounded South Vietnamese soldiers. He was unhurt, but that action resulted in the Army awarding him the Medal of Honor.

Charles L. Kelly was also a PIC of a medevac UH-1, and was enroute to a hot landing zone to pick up wounded ARVN troops. Inbound, he was told he should abandon the approach because the LZ was too dangerous. He is well known amongst medevac crews in the Army, and his "Dustoff" callsign soon became the adopted nickname of all medevac flights. His last words became the unofficial motto of the medical evacuation community. After being told to go around and avoid the hot LZ, he said "When I have your wounded...". He was cut off in mid-sentence by a bullet which killed him instantly, and his helicopter rolled over and crashed with the loss of all aboard. He was awarded the Distinguished Service Cross (second to the Medal of Honor).

My own grandfather was seriously wounded as an infantry platoon leader in Korea, when a soldier from his platoon was hit by enemy machine gun fire and left in an exposed area. He rushed out of the cover and dragged him to safety, in the course of the rescue he himself was hit by that very same machine gun. He was hospitalized for several months, and asked to return to service in Korea (which he did for another year). He got a Bronze Star.

You see, when an aircraft performs a particularly risky mission, the whole crew works to make it happen. But it's the PIC who makes the decisions, and ensures they press on. So typically they get the higher honors. If it's any comfort, Bush's crewmates at least got a Purple Heart...in itself a pretty high decoration. I'm not sure if they received any other citation. In the above examples, two pilots did almost identically brave things, and one paid with his life while the other escaped with a shot up helicopter. Yet they guy who lived got the MOH. Go figure.

 

[Singlecoil]

Thanks Huey for pointing that out. In the recent Gulf War CNN had on a Lt. Col. from one of the tank units that had just been awarded the silver star. I was kind of wondering if that was more of a unit citation rather than for individual achievement. They didn't explain what the medal was for exactly. My grandfather landed on Omaha Beach and later earned the silver star, and my father flew in the Air Force, so I am definitely not "anti-military" by any stretch of the imagination.

 

[VFR on Top]

Re: back in those days

Some have accused him of being a draft dodger, I do not see how joining the military could be considered draft dodging. .... My 1966 AOCS class had about 10% draft dodgers in it, guys who could not get into OCS at Newport because of the waiting list, but were in draft status and physically qualified for flight duty so they went to Pensacola, got their commission and DORed into some stateside billet.

Funny, first you say you don't see how someone joining the guard can be called a draft dodger, then you go on to tell us about the draft dodgers you were in AOCS with.

People who flocked to the guard during the draft--especially the children of powerful politicians--deserve to be called "draft dodgers" every bit as much as Clinton did.

 

[pilotyip]

Draft Dodger/avoider definition

I can see how that doesn't really make sense say GWB was not a dodger, but saying the guys in my Navy class were. I guess there are two meanings, one is avoidance of military service which non of my class mates nor GWB did, which would include going into the service to not get drafted, i.e. draft avoider, I might even fit that, because I did not want to get drafted and serve in the infantry, so like GWB, and my classmates I volunteered for military service, Bill Clinton did not do any service in the military and there is a big difference, he was a military servcie avoider. You are young, guessing by your flight time, you were not involved in personal decisions effecting your life during the mid to late 60's. Therefore you placing a judgment on someone else's actions during that time period is like you judging Truman on dropping the A bomb. You were not there, you did not have to make the decision.

 

[Spur]

I guess I must be a draft dodger too... seein as I never even registered at age 18. Instead I joined the air force (cunning move on my part). Well, the government finally caught up with me at age 22. See, I was down on the mexican border... little installation near Del Rio, TX (Guess it took them so long 'cause they always start looking in Canada) when Hefe (aka my flight commander) told me the selective service was hot on my trail and I'd better register before it was too late. Well, at that point, I was a little older and had wised up a little, and was thinkin of startin a family one day. I didn't want to drag them through a life on the run, so I finally gave in and signed up for the draft... Man, I was sooooo close.

Guess I'd better stay away from public office.

 

[atpcliff]

Hi!

I believe the tennis hottie is Anna Kournikova. At first the name that came to me was Svetlana Viturina, but she was a Russian volleyball player, not a tennis player, and she is not a hottie.

Cliff
MCI

PS-Thanks to the above posters who explained in more detail how the Guard works. I think that what Bush did was immoral, but I see how in the Guard system it wasn't so abnormal. I do know that when he got back to TX his CO there said he was in trouble, and that he had to do a bunch of stuff to make up for his missing guard duty while in AL. He did the stuff require to get it made up, so he wouldn't be drafted.

Hey, we can avoid all of this stuff by voting for females, as there won't be, at least for current politicians, questions of whether or not they were draft dodgers.

 

[scarface]

Actually, I think the only way you can avoid the draft dodger controversy is to only run someone who was drafted.

 

[Spur]

I know this thread has been dead for awhile, but my blood is still boiling and I found this interesting...

'Bush and I were lieutenants'
George Bush and I were lieutenants and pilots in the 111th Fighter Interceptor Squadron (FIS), Texas Air National Guard (ANG) from 1970 to 1971. We had the same flight and squadron commanders (Maj. William Harris and Lt. Col. Jerry Killian, both now deceased). While we were not part of the same social circle outside the base, we were in the same fraternity of fighter pilots, and proudly wore the same squadron patch.
It is quite frustrating to hear the daily cacophony from the left and Sen. John Kerry, Massachusetts Democrat, et al., about Lt. Bush escaping his military responsibilities by hiding in the Texas ANG. In the Air Guard during the Vietnam War, you were always subject to call-up, as many Air National Guardsmen are finding out today. If the 111th FIS and Lt. Bush did not go to Vietnam, blame President Johnson and Secretary of Defense Robert S. McNamara, not lowly Lt. Bush. They deliberately avoided use of the Guard and Reserves for domestic political calculations, knowing that a draftee only stirred up the concerns of one family, while a call-up got a whole community's attention.
The mission of the 147th Fighter Group and its subordinate 111th FIS, Texas ANG, and the airplane it possessed, the F-102, was air defense. It was focused on defending the continental United States from Soviet nuclear bombers. The F-102 could not drop bombs and would have been useless in Vietnam. A pilot program using ANG volunteer pilots in F-102s (called Palace Alert) was scrapped quickly after the airplane proved to be unsuitable to the war effort. Ironically, Lt. Bush did inquire about this program but was advised by an ANG supervisor (Maj. Maurice Udell, retired) that he did not have the desired experience (500 hours) at the time and that the program was winding down and not accepting more volunteers.
If you check the 111th FIS records of 1970-72 and any other ANG squadron, you will find other pilots excused for career obligations and conflicts. The Bush excusal in 1972 was further facilitated by a change in the unit's mission, from an operational fighter squadron to a training squadron with a new airplane, the F-101, which required that more pilots be available for full-time instructor duty rather than part-time traditional reservists with outside employment.
The winding down of the Vietnam War in 1971 provided a flood of exiting active-duty pilots for these instructor jobs, making part-timers like Lt. Bush and me somewhat superfluous. There was a huge glut of pilots in the Air Force in 1972, and with no cockpits available to put them in, many were shoved into nonflying desk jobs. Any pilot could have left the Air Force or the Air Guard with ease after 1972 before his commitment was up because there just wasn't room for all of them anymore.
Sadly, few of today's partisan pundits know anything about the environment of service in the Reserves in the 1970s. The image of a reservist at that time is of one who joined, went off for six months' basic training, then came back and drilled weekly or monthly at home, with two weeks of "summer camp." With the knowledge that Mr. Johnson and Mr. McNamara were not going to call out the Reserves, it did become a place of refuge for many wanting to avoid Vietnam.
There was one big exception to this abusive use of the Guard to avoid the draft, and that was for those who wanted to fly, as pilots or crew members. Because of the training required, signing up for this duty meant up to 2½ years of active duty for training alone, plus a high probability of mobilization. A fighter-pilot candidate selected by the Guard (such as Lt. Bush and me) would be spending the next two years on active duty going through basic training (six weeks), flight training (one year), survival training (two weeks) and combat crew training for his aircraft (six to nine months), followed by local checkout (up to three more months) before he was even deemed combat-ready. Because the draft was just two years, you sure weren't getting out of duty being an Air Guard pilot. If the unit to which you were going back was an F-100, you were mobilized for Vietnam. Avoiding service? Yeah, tell that to those guys.
The Bush critics do not comprehend the dangers of fighter aviation at any time or place, in Vietnam or at home, when they say other such pilots were risking their lives or even dying while Lt. Bush was in Texas. Our Texas ANG unit lost several planes right there in Houston during Lt. Bush's tenure, with fatalities. Just strapping on one of those obsolescing F-102s was risking one's life.
Critics such as Mr. Kerry (who served in Vietnam, you know), Terry McAuliffe and Michael Moore (neither of whom served anywhere) say Lt. Bush abandoned his assignment as a jet fighter pilot without explanation or authorization and was AWOL from the Alabama Air Guard.
Well, as for abandoning his assignment, this is untrue. Lt. Bush was excused for a period to take employment in Florida for a congressman and later in Alabama for a Senate campaign.
Excusals for employment were common then and are now in the Air Guard, as pilots frequently are in career transitions, and most commanders (as I later was) are flexible in letting their charges take care of career affairs until they return or transfer to another unit near their new employment. Sometimes they will transfer temporarily to another unit to keep them on the active list until they can return home. The receiving unit often has little use for a transitory member, especially in a high-skills category like a pilot, because those slots usually are filled and, if not filled, would require extensive conversion training of up to six months, an unlikely option for a temporary hire.
As a commander, I would put such "visitors" in some minor administrative post until they went back home. There even were a few instances when I was unaware that they were on my roster because the paperwork often lagged. Today, I can't even recall their names. If a Lt. Bush came into my unit to "pull drills" for a couple of months, I wouldn't be too involved with him because I would have a lot more important things on my table keeping the unit combat ready.
Another frequent charge is that, as a member of the Texas ANG, Lt. Bush twice ignored or disobeyed lawful orders, first by refusing to report for a required physical in the year when drug testing first became part of the exam, and second by failing to report for duty at the disciplinary unit in Colorado to which he had been ordered. Well, here are the facts:
First, there is no instance of Lt. Bush disobeying lawful orders in reporting for a physical, as none would be given. Pilots are scheduled for their annual flight physicals in their birth month during that month's weekend drill assembly — the only time the clinic is open. In the Reserves, it is not uncommon to miss this deadline by a month or so for a variety of reasons: The clinic is closed that month for special training; the individual is out of town on civilian business; etc.
If so, the pilot is grounded temporarily until he completes the physical. Also, the formal drug testing program was not instituted by the Air Force until the 1980s and is done randomly by lot, not as a special part of a flight physical, when one easily could abstain from drug use because of its date certain. Blood work is done, but to ensure a healthy pilot, not confront a drug user.
Second, there was no such thing as a "disciplinary unit in Colorado" to which Lt. Bush had been ordered. The Air Reserve Personnel Center in Denver is a repository of the paperwork for those no longer assigned to a specific unit, such as retirees and transferees. Mine is there now, so I guess I'm "being disciplined." These "disciplinary units" just don't exist. Any discipline, if required, is handled within the local squadron, group or wing, administratively or judicially. Had there been such an infraction or court-martial action, there would be a record and a reflection in Lt. Bush's performance review and personnel folder. None exists, as was confirmed in The Washington Post in 2000.
Finally, the Kerrys, Moores and McAuliffes are casting a terrible slander on those who served in the Guard, then and now. My Guard career parallels Lt. Bush's, except that I stayed on for 33 years. As a guardsman, I even got to serve in two campaigns. In the Cold War, the air defense of the United States was borne primarily by the Air National Guard, by such people as Lt. Bush and me and a lot of others. Six of those with whom I served in those years never made their 30th birthdays because they died in crashes flying air-defense missions.
(continued)

 

[Spur]

(continued from above)
While most of America was sleeping and Mr. Kerry was playing antiwar games with Hanoi Jane Fonda, we were answering 3 a.m. scrambles for who knows what inbound threat over the Canadian subarctic, the cold North Atlantic and the shark-filled Gulf of Mexico. We were the pathfinders in showing that the Guard and Reserves could become reliable members of the first team in the total force, so proudly evidenced today in Afghanistan and Iraq.
It didn't happen by accident. It happened because back at the nadir of Guard fortunes in the early '70s, a lot of volunteer guardsman showed they were ready and able to accept the responsibilities of soldier and citizen — then and now. Lt. Bush was a kid whose congressman father encouraged him to serve in the Air National Guard. We served proudly in the Guard. Would that Mr. Kerry encourage his children and the children of his colleague senators and congressmen to serve now in the Guard.
In the fighter-pilot world, we have a phrase we use when things are starting to get out of hand and it's time to stop and reset before disaster strikes. We say, "Knock it off." So, Mr. Kerry and your friends who want to slander the Guard: Knock it off.

COL. WILLIAM CAMPENNI (retired)
U.S. Air Force/Air National Guard
Herndon, Va

 

[GCD]

Good post, COL.

I was active duty in the 70's, and became disgruntled with the dismantle the military mentality in the 70's. After a tour in Korea, I was getting very little flight time, mostly being used as a range safety officer. I kept looking up and saw that someone was flying missions.

Well, I went to the airfield and found out who it was. It was the Guard. I immediately pulled the pin on active duty. Yes, I asked to get out a few months early, and request approved. I then immediately went over to the Guard facility and signed up. Presto-chango I got my NGB approval and was flying missions.

Now, 26 years after getting off active duty and going Guard, I have been deployed more and saw more combat as a traditional Guardsman than most active duty pilots, pre 9/11.

Now, at 50, I am bound for another combat tour in a few months and I am proud to be a Guardsman.

Oh, and by the way, I am a draft dodger, too. I was fresh out of high screwell when the draft board called. I told them I had no problem going, but I want to go as a pilot and I need at least two years of college. Deferral approved. Althought the draft was cancelled while I was in college, I kept my promise and went to flight school. I wrote the members of the draft board a thank you letter, with my class date and number enclosed (small town, you know).

Gosh, I should be ashamed of myself. A draft dodging Guard bum. I guess I was a drain on the American taxpayer. All the 26+ years trying to jugle my family life, my civilian employment, and my Guard committment. As a civilian airline pilot and a Guard pilot, I was gone so much that I didn't get to see my children growing up. In 2003, I was only in my house 60 days out of the entire year. I am not complaining, and neither is my wife. That is the dedication of your typical Guardsman.

Thank you for your service, COL. Campenni

 

[TonyC]

Maybe it's just because I served in the military, but I feel that our country would be way better off now if McCain was President.

Cliff
GRB

Are you referring to the same McCain that thinks airline pilots are overpaid?

Oh, and by the way... What happened to the Air Medal in your signature line??? Why did you list it in the first place? Why did you remove it?

Do Awards & Decorations make our opinions around here more or less valid??? Should I enter mine in my profile?? (I'll betcha I have more Air Medals )



SPUR - - Thanks for reviving the thread. I read it like current events.

 

[kelbill]

I'm a SWA FO and flew with a captain who was in Bush's UPT class. He said he graduated second, was athletic and very competitive. I saw a USA Today article wondering how Bush got to UPT since he got the lowest possible score on the AFOQT. Biased? Go figure. Anyway, I have no doubt he was a scammer. As screwed up as the war was, so would have I. From what I know, he was a 2nd LT in UPT and not an aviation cadet.

What kills me is that even though I admit Bush was scamming, he still did 1000 times more than Bill Clinton, who has it in writing that he loathed the military, protested in London, and went to the Soviet Union during Vietnam, and yet the liberals make him out to be the most qualified guy in the world to run our military. Oh yeah, he didn't inhale either, but he did bring us "Don't ask, don't tell" which continues to kick the military in the gut to this very day. I digress.

 

[Dizel8]

The landing on the carrier was a publicity stunt, perhaps good for morale, but nonetheless. Remember the flap over the banner on the island. Now why would you feel compelled to lie over something stupid like that?

Just like that turkey in Iraq: Looks good on a picture in the news.

Lets not even discuss why we are in Iraq, listeneing to Bush, Rumsfeld and Powell, one gets the impression that Iraq was full of WMD, but we have yet to find any indication, now that may change, it is after all a big country, but as every day goes by, it becomes more and more doubtful. The rhetoric leading up to the war is very telling. First it was, that Iraq might have WMD, then it was they have, onto they have them and they are worse than we thought, untill finally we get, they have them and can launch an attack within one hour.

I am curious, why did we not send special forces into Iraq and captured some of these facilities, we are capable of that, having the finest soldiers in the world. Perhaps they would have found nothing, then no need for war.

Remember, doubting Bush does not mean not supporting the troops.

In the end, I just want to say, that I think the armed forces men and women are doing a great job under trying circumstance and that they get to reurn home soon.

 

[chawbein]

I am curious, why did we not send special forces into Iraq and captured some of these facilities, we are capable of that, having the finest soldiers in the world. Perhaps they would have found nothing, then no need for war.

That is a suicide mission. In order to be of any use said site would have to be captured and held for weeks. I think our spec forces are great, and they have certainly proven that they can handle thousands of crack-smoking "combatants" see Mogadishu. I think they would have had a tougher time holding off the entire Iraqi army for several weeks.

The situation is/was far more complicated than any of us know. It's really easy to second guess from outside the spotlight. What is the price of being wrong?

 

[Spur]

Special forces are very commonly misunderstood by civilian (and military) types thanks to hollywood. They are a force multilplier not a tool for large scale direct combat. They are lightly armed and lightly armored. Their advantages are speed, surprise, and mobility. Using them in the manner Dizel8 described would be excactly as Chawbein described... suicide. (Just look at what happened to the SEALs in Panama when we tried it)

As far as the T-giving turkey and the carrier landing, they weren't meant for you Dizel. They were meant for soldiers, sailors, airmen and marines out there putting it on the line for our sake. They loved it... I don't think they give a d@mn what CNN tells people to think.

 

[GCD]

Dizel8,

Read what you just posted.

If we sent SpecOps into Iraq, which is a bonehead idea for reasons stated above, would that not be an invasion? Yes, it would. Therefore, if we are going to invade, we need to do it with massive forces in order to be quick and decisive, as it was.

Look what happened to the Carter Iran debacle. First, it was an Army/AF mission, but was taken away from the Army because Carter's Navy/USMC connections (political). They hadn't trained, as the Army had, and went in with ill-prepared equipment, and with too few forces. Of course, I'm sure you would love for Bush to committ the same bonehead act.

I don't care what CNN, NBC, ABC, CBS, Washington Post, and New York Times say, the carrier landing and the turkey in a war zone wasn't a stunt for votes. It was meant to show his troops that he cares enough about them to hang it out for them, as they are for him and us.

 

[boulder19]

Letter to the Editor of Washington Times 2/11/2004

'Bush and I were lieutenants'
George Bush and I were lieutenants and pilots in the 111th Fighter Interceptor Squadron (FIS), Texas Air National Guard (ANG) from 1970 to 1971. We had the same flight and squadron commanders (Maj. William Harris and Lt. Col. Jerry Killian, both now deceased). While we were not part of the same social circle outside the base, we were in the same fraternity of fighter pilots, and proudly wore the same squadron patch.
It is quite frustrating to hear the daily cacophony from the left and Sen. John Kerry, Massachusetts Democrat, et al., about Lt. Bush escaping his military responsibilities by hiding in the Texas ANG. In the Air Guard during the Vietnam War, you were always subject to call-up, as many Air National Guardsmen are finding out today. If the 111th FIS and Lt. Bush did not go to Vietnam, blame President Johnson and Secretary of Defense Robert S. McNamara, not lowly Lt. Bush. They deliberately avoided use of the Guard and Reserves for domestic political calculations, knowing that a draftee only stirred up the concerns of one family, while a call-up got a whole community's attention.
The mission of the 147th Fighter Group and its subordinate 111th FIS, Texas ANG, and the airplane it possessed, the F-102, was air defense. It was focused on defending the continental United States from Soviet nuclear bombers. The F-102 could not drop bombs and would have been useless in Vietnam. A pilot program using ANG volunteer pilots in F-102s (called Palace Alert) was scrapped quickly after the airplane proved to be unsuitable to the war effort. Ironically, Lt. Bush did inquire about this program but was advised by an ANG supervisor (Maj. Maurice Udell, retired) that he did not have the desired experience (500 hours) at the time and that the program was winding down and not accepting more volunteers.
If you check the 111th FIS records of 1970-72 and any other ANG squadron, you will find other pilots excused for career obligations and conflicts. The Bush excusal in 1972 was further facilitated by a change in the unit's mission, from an operational fighter squadron to a training squadron with a new airplane, the F-101, which required that more pilots be available for full-time instructor duty rather than part-time traditional reservists with outside employment.
The winding down of the Vietnam War in 1971 provided a flood of exiting active-duty pilots for these instructor jobs, making part-timers like Lt. Bush and me somewhat superfluous. There was a huge glut of pilots in the Air Force in 1972, and with no cockpits available to put them in, many were shoved into nonflying desk jobs. Any pilot could have left the Air Force or the Air Guard with ease after 1972 before his commitment was up because there just wasn't room for all of them anymore.
Sadly, few of today's partisan pundits know anything about the environment of service in the Reserves in the 1970s. The image of a reservist at that time is of one who joined, went off for six months' basic training, then came back and drilled weekly or monthly at home, with two weeks of "summer camp." With the knowledge that Mr. Johnson and Mr. McNamara were not going to call out the Reserves, it did become a place of refuge for many wanting to avoid Vietnam.
There was one big exception to this abusive use of the Guard to avoid the draft, and that was for those who wanted to fly, as pilots or crew members. Because of the training required, signing up for this duty meant up to 2½ years of active duty for training alone, plus a high probability of mobilization. A fighter-pilot candidate selected by the Guard (such as Lt. Bush and me) would be spending the next two years on active duty going through basic training (six weeks), flight training (one year), survival training (two weeks) and combat crew training for his aircraft (six to nine months), followed by local checkout (up to three more months) before he was even deemed combat-ready. Because the draft was just two years, you sure weren't getting out of duty being an Air Guard pilot. If the unit to which you were going back was an F-100, you were mobilized for Vietnam. Avoiding service? Yeah, tell that to those guys.
The Bush critics do not comprehend the dangers of fighter aviation at any time or place, in Vietnam or at home, when they say other such pilots were risking their lives or even dying while Lt. Bush was in Texas. Our Texas ANG unit lost several planes right there in Houston during Lt. Bush's tenure, with fatalities. Just strapping on one of those obsolescing F-102s was risking one's life.
Critics such as Mr. Kerry (who served in Vietnam, you know), Terry McAuliffe and Michael Moore (neither of whom served anywhere) say Lt. Bush abandoned his assignment as a jet fighter pilot without explanation or authorization and was AWOL from the Alabama Air Guard.
Well, as for abandoning his assignment, this is untrue. Lt. Bush was excused for a period to take employment in Florida for a congressman and later in Alabama for a Senate campaign.
Excusals for employment were common then and are now in the Air Guard, as pilots frequently are in career transitions, and most commanders (as I later was) are flexible in letting their charges take care of career affairs until they return or transfer to another unit near their new employment. Sometimes they will transfer temporarily to another unit to keep them on the active list until they can return home. The receiving unit often has little use for a transitory member, especially in a high-skills category like a pilot, because those slots usually are filled and, if not filled, would require extensive conversion training of up to six months, an unlikely option for a temporary hire.
As a commander, I would put such "visitors" in some minor administrative post until they went back home. There even were a few instances when I was unaware that they were on my roster because the paperwork often lagged. Today, I can't even recall their names. If a Lt. Bush came into my unit to "pull drills" for a couple of months, I wouldn't be too involved with him because I would have a lot more important things on my table keeping the unit combat ready.
Another frequent charge is that, as a member of the Texas ANG, Lt. Bush twice ignored or disobeyed lawful orders, first by refusing to report for a required physical in the year when drug testing first became part of the exam, and second by failing to report for duty at the disciplinary unit in Colorado to which he had been ordered. Well, here are the facts:
First, there is no instance of Lt. Bush disobeying lawful orders in reporting for a physical, as none would be given. Pilots are scheduled for their annual flight physicals in their birth month during that month's weekend drill assembly - the only time the clinic is open. In the Reserves, it is not uncommon to miss this deadline by a month or so for a variety of reasons: The clinic is closed that month for special training; the individual is out of town on civilian business; etc.
If so, the pilot is grounded temporarily until he completes the physical. Also, the formal drug testing program was not instituted by the Air Force until the 1980s and is done randomly by lot, not as a special part of a flight physical, when one easily could abstain from drug use because of its date certain. Blood work is done, but to ensure a healthy pilot, not confront a drug user.
Second, there was no such thing as a "disciplinary unit in Colorado" to which Lt. Bush had been ordered. The Air Reserve Personnel Center in Denver is a repository of the paperwork for those no longer assigned to a specific unit, such as retirees and transferees. Mine is there now, so I guess I'm "being disciplined." These "disciplinary units" just don't exist. Any discipline, if required, is handled within the local squadron, group or wing, administratively or judicially. Had there been such an infraction or court-martial action, there would be a record and a reflection in Lt. Bush's performance review and personnel folder. None exists, as was confirmed in The Washington Post in 2000.
Finally, the Kerrys, Moores and McAuliffes are casting a terrible slander on those who served in the Guard, then and now. My Guard career parallels Lt. Bush's, except that I stayed on for 33 years. As a guardsman, I even got to serve in two campaigns. In the Cold War, the air defense of the United States was borne primarily by the Air National Guard, by such people as Lt. Bush and me and a lot of others. Six of those with whom I served in those years never made their 30th birthdays because they died in crashes flying air-defense missions.
While most of America was sleeping and Mr. Kerry was playing antiwar games with Hanoi Jane Fonda, we were answering 3 a.m. scrambles for who knows what inbound threat over the Canadian subarctic, the cold North Atlantic and the shark-filled Gulf of Mexico. We were the pathfinders in showing that the Guard and Reserves could become reliable members of the first team in the total force, so proudly evidenced today in Afghanistan and Iraq.
It didn't happen by accident. It happened because back at the nadir of Guard fortunes in the early '70s, a lot of volunteer guardsman showed they were ready and able to accept the responsibilities of soldier and citizen - then and now. Lt. Bush was a kid whose congressman father encouraged him to serve in the Air National Guard. We served proudly in the Guard. Would that Mr. Kerry encourage his children and the children of his colleague senators and congressmen to serve now in the Guard.
So, Mr. Kerry and your friends who want to slander the Guard: Knock it off.
COL. WILLIAM CAMPENNI (retired)
U.S. Air Force/Air National Guard
Herndon, Va.5