No, I took the equivalent of part of one page...as there are multiple threads per page. The regulation is very, very clear on the subject.
The reason the explanation was extended did not have to do with an unclear regulation but the original poster who seems to be having some difficulty with the English language. Breaking plain English down to baby words takes up a little more space.
I was PM'd, and asked to comment on his thread, in part due to his comments here, and in part due to his comments elsewhere. I don't participate at the "elsewhere," so I was asked to comment here. In particular, my invitation noted that this poster tends to back up his statements with his own imagination ("someone told me") or what he guesses might be right, whereas I tend to back the conversation up with quotes, citations and facts. This also takes up space.
You really need not tell me what I must and must not do. The regulation is not at all written to confuse, and it's among the shortest and concise of any federal regulation (ever see the tax code?). The regulation is not a comic book. One needs to actually pay attention and read it, rather than guessing what is there.
For one thing, they're entirely different subjects. For another, the regulation was made that way in favor of the pilot; it's a courtesy. The regulation recognizes that one has performed as a PIC and met the specific requirements of log that time, and that one is qualified in the airplane. Being the PIC is a legal responsibility; it's an office one briefly holds. Logging PIC is a record of experience pertaining to a specific set of criteria. You might as well ask what's the point of eating an orange when you can look at the color orange? The point is they sound the same when spoken...but are two entirely different things and shouldn't be confused. Most pilots do, because they're too lazy to read and understand the regulation.
This is a mystery. The pilot lives by his pilot certificate, is governed by and has privileges only according to the regulation which granted the certificate, and is under penalty of code and law to always adhere to those regulations on pain of losing his certificate...yet won't lift a finger to understand the regulation.
What's the point of being hungry, but looking at the color orange? We're back to ignorance of the regulation again. The color and the fruit are not the same, any more than acting as PIC and logging PIC are not the same...in fact they're very different and distinct regulations, subjects, and concepts. That they sound the same should trip up a third grader...but shouldn't really present a problem to an adult capable of reading the English language.
Where does the regulation state that you must "log in your logbook that you performed the duties of PIC," or that "you didn't officially 'log' PIC?"
The regulation does not state this? Why invent what's not there?
You need not log PIC, period. You must perform the duties of PIC for a small part of the total 1,500 hours required for the ATP, in the category of aircraft (airplane, in this case). That's it. The FAA has graciously provided that one can get the ATP without ever having actually been the PIC...so long as one has demonstrated performance of those duties under supervision. The FAA is giving the pilot an "out," a chance. This is a favor to the pilot. They're giving you your chance to get your ATP..and you whine about documenting it? Truly unbelievable. Perhaps you'd prefer that the FAA come to your house, or your place of work, and log it for you? This is a typical attitude, of course...not willing or interested in lifting a finger to help one's self. Too hard?
Firstof all, the 8710 doesn't "want" anything. Least of all PIC time. Do you not know how to fill one out? Do you not understand that if one is using simulator time, the form won't show 1500 hours, and that if one isn't using PIC time, one need not show PIC time? Have you not read the directions?
Do you not understand that the "examiner" doesn't "want" anything different...and is bound by the regulation, too?
What your interviewer wants is irrelevant in the face of the regulation. The regulation isn't written for your employer or your interviewer, but for you. What you really need to consider is how foolish you may appear showing up for an interview and not understanding the regulation.
I recently participated in a thread with a pilot who was logging only half of his SIC...because someone told him that's the way it is. His instructor, who also was ignorant of the regulation, told him this. Rather than actually crack a book or lift a finger to check, he miraculously went several thousand hours, and logged half of it? One cannot blame the regulation for ignorance thereof...it's simply a matter of pilots who are too lazy to actually read for themselves. As for what an employer wants to see...it's up to you to go get the experience.
Rest assured that if you meet the requirements for the ATP and obtain the ATP, the employer isn't going to tell you that you're not qualified to hold the ATP. If you're complaining about obtaining the ATP based on SIC experience rather than PIC experience (as the regulation allows), the only issue is in your mind.
With regulations such as 61.159, the FAA has handed the ATP applicant a gift on a platter...but only a pilot would whine and complain that even this is too hard. Too hard to do, too hard to log, too hard to understand. The FAA has bowed down to you, stated that you don't need the PIC time...you can do it with SIC, that's it...and even this is too much. I'm not sure if it's arrogance or sheer laziness that cops such an attitude, but it's prevalent in the business either way, and a sad comment on those who profess it.
The regulation does not state this? Why invent what's not there?
You need not log PIC, period. You must perform the duties of PIC for a small part of the total 1,500 hours required for the ATP, in the category of aircraft (airplane, in this case). That's it. The FAA has graciously provided that one can get the ATP without ever having actually been the PIC...so long as one has demonstrated performance of those duties under supervision. The FAA is giving the pilot an "out," a chance. This is a favor to the pilot. They're giving you your chance to get your ATP..and you whine about documenting it? Truly unbelievable. Perhaps you'd prefer that the FAA come to your house, or your place of work, and log it for you? This is a typical attitude, of course...not willing or interested in lifting a finger to help one's self. Too hard?
Firstof all, the 8710 doesn't "want" anything. Least of all PIC time. Do you not know how to fill one out? Do you not understand that if one is using simulator time, the form won't show 1500 hours, and that if one isn't using PIC time, one need not show PIC time? Have you not read the directions?
Do you not understand that the "examiner" doesn't "want" anything different...and is bound by the regulation, too?
What your interviewer wants is irrelevant in the face of the regulation. The regulation isn't written for your employer or your interviewer, but for you. What you really need to consider is how foolish you may appear showing up for an interview and not understanding the regulation.
I recently participated in a thread with a pilot who was logging only half of his SIC...because someone told him that's the way it is. His instructor, who also was ignorant of the regulation, told him this. Rather than actually crack a book or lift a finger to check, he miraculously went several thousand hours, and logged half of it? One cannot blame the regulation for ignorance thereof...it's simply a matter of pilots who are too lazy to actually read for themselves. As for what an employer wants to see...it's up to you to go get the experience.
Rest assured that if you meet the requirements for the ATP and obtain the ATP, the employer isn't going to tell you that you're not qualified to hold the ATP. If you're complaining about obtaining the ATP based on SIC experience rather than PIC experience (as the regulation allows), the only issue is in your mind.
With regulations such as 61.159, the FAA has handed the ATP applicant a gift on a platter...but only a pilot would whine and complain that even this is too hard. Too hard to do, too hard to log, too hard to understand. The FAA has bowed down to you, stated that you don't need the PIC time...you can do it with SIC, that's it...and even this is too much. I'm not sure if it's arrogance or sheer laziness that cops such an attitude, but it's prevalent in the business either way, and a sad comment on those who profess it.
