Lord Farquaad In The Fuhrerbunker

[GlorifiedCabbie]

Cabbie, I'm not worried Ricci feels disrespected. I just think our energy is better directed at SLI and JCBA.

Doh, I wanted to clarify the point that it is KR that doesn't respect us.

 

[doh]

SLI and the JCBA will continue to move ahead dispite the distractions. The FO pilots are tired of delays and excuses. There will always be pilots that don't agree with what we do collectively. Not every union member will behave the way the no voters want. Do the no voters get to dictate the behavior for all union members? Of coarse not and especiall the ones that have no intention of helping the whole pilot group.

This^^^^^^^^^

 

[realityman]

Oh come on! That was funny!

A member of our union did basically the same thing with JH. It's actually great for morale to be able to laugh a little at the little dictators who get frustrated they can't control our lives.

If something like this gets KR's panties in a knot then you guys have already won. It shows he isn't the cool character he'd like to think he is.

Good luck!

 

[FracMonkey]

Oh come on! That was funny!

A member of our union did basically the same thing with JH. It's actually great for morale to be able to laugh a little at the little dictators who get frustrated they can't control our lives.

If something like this gets KR's panties in a knot then you guys have already won. It shows he isn't the cool character he'd like to think he is.

Good luck!

Oh, it's much more than just having his panties in a knot. With the letter to Union leadership and the subsequent letter to the pilots he's effectively retreated to his treehouse, pulled up the ladder and has made it clear that all he plans to do is stick his tongue out at his pilots from said treehouse during negotiations.

Video or no video, the pout fest began with the disclosure of the vote results and won't end until he gets the Union decertified, which he clearly talks about in yesterday's letter. I'm less concerned about SLI or JCBA than I am about how far he'll be willing to go to win a decert campaign. We thought the campaign was dirty? We haven't seen anything yet......

 

[Praetorian]

There is no decertification under the RLA. Don't you get it? The "decert campaign" is over. It just happened and the union won the election.

That's why he's up in his treehouse, as you say. That was his last and very best shot at ridding himself of those bad old teamsters and it's over.

There is know other company out there that is big enough for him to acquire to force another representation vote. End of story.

 

[gutshotdraw]

There is no decertification under the RLA. Don't you get it? The "decert campaign" is over. It just happened and the union won the election.

That's why he's up in his treehouse, as you say. That was his last and very best shot at ridding himself of those bad old teamsters and it's over.

There is know other company out there that is big enough for him to acquire to force another representation vote. End of story.

Sure you can decertify a union. Teamsters 284/1108 decertified in order to establish the independent NJASAP. US Airways decertified ALPA during a temper tantrum in order to establish USAPA. It can be done.

If Kenn is able to foment enough division and spread enough FUD, there is a mechanism in place to do so. I doubt he could be successful but it is possible.

 

[FracMonkey]

Sure you can decertify a union. Teamsters 284/1108 decertified in order to establish the independent NJASAP. US Airways decertified ALPA during a temper tantrum in order to establish USAPA. It can be done.

If Kenn is able to foment enough division and spread enough FUD, there is a mechanism in place to do so. I doubt he could be successful but it is possible.

Exactly, and those of you who are cocky enough to think that the 1108 is somehow invincible are just as dangerous as he is.

KR sees the narrow margin of victory as an opportunity and don't think for a second that while he pouts in his treehouse he's not thinking of ways to coax 1% of the pilot group to his way of thinking......

 

[Praetorian]

Sure you can decertify a union. Teamsters 284/1108 decertified in order to establish the independent NJASAP. US Airways decertified ALPA during a temper tantrum in order to establish USAPA. It can be done.

If Kenn is able to foment enough division and spread enough FUD, there is a mechanism in place to do so. I doubt he could be successful but it is possible.

What you're describing is not decertification, it's replacing one union with another. There are some very important differences.

 

[The Architect]

Two Years

Code of Federal Regulations
Title 29

CHAPTER X. NATIONAL MEDIATION BOARD

Sec. 1206.4 Time limits on applications.

Except in unusual or extraordinary circumstances, the National Mediation Board will not accept an application for investigation of a representation dispute among employees of a carrier:

(a) For a period of two (2) years from the date of a certification covering the same craft or class of employees on the same carrier...

 

[doh]

So we have two years to convince more our fellow pilots to get on board. He has two years to sew division.

 

[Praetorian]

Exactly, and those of you who are cocky enough to think that the 1108 is somehow invincible are just as dangerous as he is.

KR sees the narrow margin of victory as an opportunity and don't think for a second that while he pouts in his treehouse he's not thinking of ways to coax 1% of the pilot group to his way of thinking......

That's not the way it works under the RLA. He can't simply "coax 1% of the pilot group" to join with the no voters and remove the union, as he could do if we were organized under the NLRA. He would need to convince 50% + 1 to vote in a new union. Historically this rarely happens, unless as it did at NJ, the union's current leadership gets behind the effort. There have already been at least two "in-house" efforts at Flight Options that failed to gain any momentum. I think that approach is played out.

So, yes of course we can't afford to rest on our laurels. We need to continue to organize, we need to convince the pilots that voted against the union that it has something to offer. These things will not happen overnight and they certainly were not going to happen over the period of the past 19 days since the union won the election. Pilots always want things to happen right now, it's in our nature. This will take hard work and patience and persistence.

I think it's important to accurately understand and put into context the enormity of the election we just won. It was an historic victory that places the pilots at FX and FO in a very strong position. The company knew going in that if we won their available avenues to remove the union would be limited, that's why they fought so hard and dirty to attempt a win.

We need to recognize that and take the necessary steps to move forward, and capitalize on our success, not wring our hands in fear of things that are not likely to happen. The bogeymen have been banished, they can only get back in if we let them.

 

[shanes123]

You will NEVER EVER GET THIS MANAGEMENT TO WORK WITH THE UNION NEVER HAVE NEVER WILL. unless everyone in management is replaced not just KR. And that won't happen either. It is gonna be a ugly battle the whole way thru.

 

[Imissmypilot]

There is no other company out there that is big enough for him to acquire to force another representation vote. End of story.

Don't be so sure there, Sparky.

Word on the street is XOjet is acquiring TMC and going after Wheels Up.

I'm not sure how that works with TMC being in the middle of negotiations. But you bet your bottom dollar if XOjet is crafty enough to build a sizeable non union shop, Kenn Ricci will pay any price to get another shot at this union thing. The slim margin of victory keeps his hopes alive. You'd be stupid to think those rich bastards don't already have a handshake deal about it and the cash out might be the only reason XO is even doing it.

One thing we have to face is the slim margin of victory also indicates some Options pilots are displeased. It's not all Flexjet that caused the low number.

The solution, in my most humble opinion? Get thru SLI quickly even if it pisses off a good portion of the pilot group. We MUST get quickly to negotiations. We MUST. Percentage of overall seniority is the fastest and fairest way.

It is at the negotiating table we will prove our worth to the pilot group and we must go after every brass ring out there, knowing full well already it will end up in arbitration. The good news is every arbitrator out there will have a long history of Kenn's games to look at and I trust we will get a good deal in the end if we give an arbitrator enough room to back down from.

At the end of the day, Options pilots won't much care about not being able to cash in on a DOH SLI lottery scam if they are paid well enough going forward.

BTW, including a parity signing bonus should be considered a mandatory inclusion to this contract. I say $400 per month for every year of service (including pretty purchase service for RTA and Flex folks) with a 75K cap. Sure, to an arbitrator it looks unreasonable at a 50 million dollar price tag but after showing him the contracts for the supersonics he'll realize old Kenn can afford it.

 

[Praetorian]

Don't be so sure there, Sparky.

Word on the street is XOjet is acquiring TMC and going after Wheels Up.

I'm not sure how that works with TMC being in the middle of negotiations. But you bet your bottom dollar if XOjet is crafty enough to build a sizeable non union shop, Kenn Ricci will pay any price to get another shot at this union thing. The slim margin of victory keeps his hopes alive. You'd be stupid to think those rich bastards don't already have a handshake deal about it and the cash out might be the only reason XO is even doing it.

One thing we have to face is the slim margin of victory also indicates some Options pilots are displeased. It's not all Flexjet that caused the low number.

The solution, in my most humble opinion? Get thru SLI quickly even if it pisses off a good portion of the pilot group. We MUST get quickly to negotiations. We MUST. Percentage of overall seniority is the fastest and fairest way.

It is at the negotiating table we will prove our worth to the pilot group and we must go after every brass ring out there, knowing full well already it will end up in arbitration. The good news is every arbitrator out there will have a long history of Kenn's games to look at and I trust we will get a good deal in the end if we give an arbitrator enough room to back down from.

At the end of the day, Options pilots won't much care about not being able to cash in on a DOH SLI lottery scam if they are paid well enough going forward.

BTW, including a parity signing bonus should be considered a mandatory inclusion to this contract. I say $400 per month for every year of service (including pretty purchase service for RTA and Flex folks) with a 75K cap. Sure, to an arbitrator it looks unreasonable at a 50 million dollar price tag but after showing him the contracts for the supersonics he'll realize old Kenn can afford it.

Relax. A combined TMC/XO Jet is not big enough. Jeesh, talk about wild speculation.

I agree with most of the rest of what you posted.

 

[flexible]

Relax. A combined TMC/XO Jet is not big enough. Jeesh, talk about wild speculation.

I agree with most of the rest of what you posted.

Once up on a time it was considered wild speculation that Bombabrdier was shopping around Flex.

We were told how crazy this idea was from the highest levels of management while it would seem they were in the middle of negotiations.

With the margins of victory Ken Ricci doesn't need a sizeable group, he only needs to make sure he'll get 2 more no votes thasn the last time when it all skakes down.

maybe thar guy is wild soeculating but you are inrealisticly cocky. I'm more inclinrd to believe theres more to be worried about than feel safe about. History is a good thing to examine in this case.