Looming Pilot Shortage Lowering the Bar???--Article

[Captzaahlie]

I do agree that real experience can't be bought. But at least one of the two pilots will have at least 1300 more hours of 'experience' than the FNG in the right seat. All this, coming soon in an RJ in which you'll be a passenger in!

sad & scary!

 

[atpcliff]

Hi!

I did not apply at UAL or CAL, because I didn't think the job was good enough for my situation.

cliff
GRB

 

[Lear70]

I can understand UAL with all the uncertainty, but CAL???

I know the 1st year pay sucks, but they'd be about my top choice from passenger Legacy carriers to work for...

 

[regionaltard]

...those standards are pretty low.

That's like saying Rosie O' Donnell is a bit on the repugnant side.

 

[AQ PILOT]

And Clinton was a real help a decade ago...

GEORGE BUSH.....destroyed any leverage the unions had. Just look at the make of the NMB and legislation that he has sponsored and or supported.

And of course it seems all of the pilots I fly with support his unbalanced and unchecked approach to the free market place.

Just look at the decision his appointed judge made in regard to Trans states/gojets issue. This judge concluded that since Gojets had a different swipe key to get into their offices(which were in the same building as Trans states) meant they were a completely different and unrelated company. Allowing them the power to whip saw and bring already eroded wages down further.

Vote Democrat.....let me guess this message will be pulled because the republican Flightinfo monitors will pull it. Pay 10 dollars for a blog web site with all sorts of revenue driven ads on it.....spells greed and republican.

Probably not even relevant to the discussion at this point in the thread but...

Hey Max Powers, do you really think this is Dubya's fault? Remember Slick Willie and how helpful he was back in '97? Here's a little clip for you to help you remember...

<<By Brian KnowltonPublished: MONDAY, FEBRUARY 17, 1997

WASHINGTON: American Airlines service was nearly back to normal Sunday, a day after President Bill Clinton ordered pilots back to work. But the prospect that his action might merely delay a strike appeared certain to jostle and confuse domestic and international travel until a solution is reached.

Mr. Clinton intervened Saturday to halt a minutes-old strike at the nation's second-largest airline, appointing a board to study the dispute and postponing a walkout by American's 9,000 pilots for at least 60 days.......>>

 

[atpcliff]

Hi!

The main problem for me with CAL was the commute-not too good.

cliff
BNA

 

[CaptSeth]

Probably not even relevant to the discussion at this point in the thread but...

Hey Max Powers, do you really think this is Dubya's fault? Remember Slick Willie and how helpful he was back in '97? Here's a little clip for you to help you remember..........>>

Perhaps if the APA had not have chosen to endorse Bush Sr., an avowed anti-airline labor tool of Lorenzo, they may have had more support from the administration at the time.

 

[Freight Dog]

ualdriver, I heard that the work rules for LCO are FAR's. It might be tolerable if the pay was up to par, but even pay is low.

I truly hope you guys "take it back" because the current situation for any potential new-hire is embarrassing.

 

[hindsight2020]

Any economist out there care to speculate as to why, when there is increased demand for a product and diminishing supply, the compensation/price for said product decreases?

Price Elasticity of Demand. This is clearly inelastic with respect to pilots (the buyer) and the income their jobs offer (the good being bought). Pilots treat flying an airplane almost like a parent treats the cost of a procedure to keep his kid alive(perfectly inelastic). Yeah it's making some applicants reconsider and turn away, but the majority still flock to these jobs.

It is for that reason that I don't buy that there is any dramatic diminishing in supply, which is sad but proves that if the regionals decided to not pay anything at all for the position of a pilot, many would still accept the job.

That compounds to the other problem, the opportunity cost issue. If there was a stable and reasonable probability of attaining and keeping the income attached to the jobs that people want and are in effect accepting low wages early on in their careers for, then it would be a reasonable economic move to pursue the pilot thing. But, when that is not true (anymore) then the opportunity cost is really high. (sh$tty QOL for years just to get furloughed, and now ¿unwilling? to start over = merry Xmas wife and kids, no college for you next year jr.) Once again, because of the inelasticity of demand people still do it. I do feel that if GA was affordable for the middle income earner it would help alleviate the problem. I know plenty of people who attempt to pursue flying professionally because they cannot afford to do it privately (myself included).

Will that sentiment change? Perhaps to certain degrees for some people, but most will keep chasing the carrot tied over their backs (major jobs) and continue fueling that inelasticity.

The solution? Hmm, ab initio perhaps? That would certainly kill off GA in this country though. Who knows.

 

[deemee boosgkee]

Supply and demand

Price Elasticity of Demand. This is clearly inelastic with respect to pilots (the buyer) and the income their jobs offer (the good being bought). Pilots treat flying an airplane almost like a parent treats the cost of a procedure to keep his kid alive(perfectly inelastic). Yeah it's making some applicants reconsider and turn away, but the majority still flock to these jobs.

It is for that reason that I don't buy that there is any dramatic diminishing in supply, which is sad but proves that if the regionals decided to not pay anything at all for the position of a pilot, many would still accept the job.

That compounds to the other problem, the opportunity cost issue. If there was a stable and reasonable probability of attaining and keeping the income attached to the jobs that people want and are in effect accepting low wages early on in their careers for, then it would be a reasonable economic move to pursue the pilot thing. But, when that is not true (anymore) then the opportunity cost is really high. (sh$tty QOL for years just to get furloughed, and now ¿unwilling? to start over = merry Xmas wife and kids, no college for you next year jr.) Once again, because of the inelasticity of demand people still do it. I do feel that if GA was affordable for the middle income earner it would help alleviate the problem. I know plenty of people who attempt to pursue flying professionally because they cannot afford to do it privately (myself included).

Will that sentiment change? Perhaps to certain degrees for some people, but most will keep chasing the carrot tied over their backs (major jobs) and continue fueling that inelasticity.

The solution? Hmm, ab initio perhaps? That would certainly kill off GA in this country though. Who knows.

It seems that in the future it will be easier for pilots to demand higher wages since there are fewer student pilot certs issued now than 10 yrs ago (less supply) and demand for air travel in the USA according to the International Air Transport Assoc. is suppose to increase by 5.3% annually until at least 2011 (more demand)!

Clearly this will only help pilots gain leverage in raising the bar for better pay in the future.

 

[deemee boosgkee]

Supply and demand

Price Elasticity of Demand. This is clearly inelastic with respect to pilots (the buyer) and the income their jobs offer (the good being bought). Pilots treat flying an airplane almost like a parent treats the cost of a procedure to keep his kid alive(perfectly inelastic). Yeah it's making some applicants reconsider and turn away, but the majority still flock to these jobs.

It is for that reason that I don't buy that there is any dramatic diminishing in supply, which is sad but proves that if the regionals decided to not pay anything at all for the position of a pilot, many would still accept the job.

That compounds to the other problem, the opportunity cost issue. If there was a stable and reasonable probability of attaining and keeping the income attached to the jobs that people want and are in effect accepting low wages early on in their careers for, then it would be a reasonable economic move to pursue the pilot thing. But, when that is not true (anymore) then the opportunity cost is really high. (sh$tty QOL for years just to get furloughed, and now ¿unwilling? to start over = merry Xmas wife and kids, no college for you next year jr.) Once again, because of the inelasticity of demand people still do it. I do feel that if GA was affordable for the middle income earner it would help alleviate the problem. I know plenty of people who attempt to pursue flying professionally because they cannot afford to do it privately (myself included).

Will that sentiment change? Perhaps to certain degrees for some people, but most will keep chasing the carrot tied over their backs (major jobs) and continue fueling that inelasticity.

The solution? Hmm, ab initio perhaps? That would certainly kill off GA in this country though. Who knows.

Oops double post

 

[Skank]

Any economist out there care to speculate as to why, when there is increased demand for a product and diminishing supply, the compensation/price for said product decreases?

Because it's still easier to screw us for the shorfall than to get our passengers to pay for it?

 

[dooork]

I guess if you come from Mesa you are right UAL is the "dream job"

No. I'm at MESA and would not leave to go to UAL or US Air.........ways.

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

Vote however you want, but wasn't it Democratic Pres Bill Clinton who PEB'ed APA back to work. American pilots went on strike for 4 minutes before Democratic Pres Clinton ORDERED the pilots back to work... Pro labor, huh!!!

We do not have friends in the White House. Presidents won't negotiate our future agreements. The only thing airline management fears is a pilot group that is not afraid to light the match and burn the place down for a fair contract. Until then, the raping and pillaging will continue.

Well BRO...

Think about yourself and your blue-collar job next time you leave a hanging chad and your repub. pals sue everybody to change the election.......

Clinton let AA walk which is something Bush won't even let a union attempt. Negotiations were ongoing and he drops a "Nobody's striking on my watch..." so management doesn't even need to bargain.

Clinton let them strike to prove the point and then let the cooler heads to the table. The threat wasn't removed early on by a president hell-bent on screwing the worker into a minimum wage job like Bush.

Leverage is what it's about......keep on voting like you are a CEO and see what you get.....

 

[BOOZENEWS]

Well BRO...

Think about yourself and your blue-collar job next time you leave a hanging chad and your repub. pals sue everybody to change the election.......

Clinton let AA walk which is something Bush won't even let a union attempt. Negotiations were ongoing and he drops a "Nobody's striking on my watch..." so management doesn't even need to bargain.

Clinton let them strike to prove the point and then let the cooler heads to the table. The threat wasn't removed early on by a president hell-bent on screwing the worker into a minimum wage job like Bush.

Leverage is what it's about......keep on voting like you are a CEO and see what you get.....

To be fair it was under Bush's watch that the Comair strike took place without him doing anything to intervene.

There are alternatives to striking that are will get managements attention such writing up every little glitch and playing it very safe!