Looks like Gulfstream got the WSJ's attention

[IBNAV8R]

The PIC is the FINAL authority as to the operation of an aircraft. Arguing about whether it is legal is here nor there. None of us was the PIC on that particular flight. It is a poor commentary on an airline that will not back it's PICs. Of course, this seems to be most companies nowadays. An airline that chooses to make an example of someone who, made a safety decision in good faith, is not one I'd put my family on. I hope WSJ exposes the S*** out of this outfit and those like it. Getting rid of these will definitely be an overall safety improvement for the entire industry.

 

[JustaNumber]

PIC: The tray table is broke and that is BS. I don't work for a place that has that little concern for passenger comfort.

Chief Pilot: The tray table is deferred. That's it. Take the flight or we'll find someone who will.

PIC: Fine, I'm outta here. I can't believe this type of operation even exists.

YOU ALL: How do you not support the PIC dicission? Are you communist? You're DANGEROUS! Oh my gosh, you're what's wrong with this industry....

This is why I shouldn't troll around in the regional threads. You all (the ones posting against flying with a deferred TCAS) are inexperianced shinny jet blah blah blah. I don't care anymore. Take you're stupid RJ's and enjoy you're 100% TCAS rate.

Don't bother to respond as I'm out. Out out out. See ya. Remind me to never fly 121 again.

You left without answering my hot day/no APU question. Reason: you couldn't answer it without admitting even you have to use some occasional judgement without just reading a book that management handed you. The plaque for the alternates is down in the ladies' room.

 

[s3jetman]

obviously something wasn't warranted as the court case with the individual at question is already over an he lost. gia must of had a substantial reason to fire this individual

 

[CA1900]

You're captain on a CRJ200. It's 85 degrees outside ... APU is deferred. Perfectly legal. It's in the MEL. ... Do you go?

I refused a 1900 with a broken freon system for exactly that reason. The thing was dark blue, had been baking in the sun for three hours, and was like opening a blast furnace when we opened the cabin door. As anyone who's flown it knows, without the vapor cycle system, only your ankles will get any cool air in a 1900. The rest of the vents will be like hair dryers.

Oh, both the gate agents and the company tried to convince me to go. "But it's only a short taxi! Besides, won't it get cool at altitude?"

"Half of us will be dead before we even leave the ramp. If I put my dog inside this aircraft I'd be arrested for animal abuse."

That ended the conversation. They fixed the air and we left an hour late.

 

[kf4amu]

I'm a good bit older than you might think. Anyway, let's try some examples. You're captain on a CRJ200. It's 85 degrees outside, dewpoint 80 (humid as he'll), there's a money line that looks to be in excess of two hours long, and the APU is deferred. Perfectly legal. It's in the MEL. Do you go?

Thats a daily occurrence at Piedmont in the summer. Never heard anyone getting in trouble for not going, although I wouldnt be surprised if they did.

 

[WSurf]

Thats a daily occurrence at Piedmont in the summer. Never heard anyone getting in trouble for not going, although I wouldnt be surprised if they did.

I have grounded 3 planes (Piedmont) over the last 3 summers due to heat and not once did I ever have a problem with the company telling me to fly it.

 

[Nindiri]

I'm a good bit older than you might think. Anyway, let's try some examples. You're captain on a CRJ200. It's 85 degrees outside, dewpoint 80 (humid as he'll), there's a money line that looks to be in excess of two hours long, and the APU is deferred. Perfectly legal. It's in the MEL. Oh, and you've got 17 wheelchairs--something about a WWI reunion. And the chief pilot just called and said refusing the aircraft is not an option as the company completion factor is in the toilet. Do you go?

Absolutely. Why should I subject myself to the hassle of dealing with an angry CP and lots of irritated passengers? If the CP said take it, I'd take it. I'd taxi out, and ten minutes later when the heat began to rise dangerously, I'd taxi back to the gate with the documentation to show that I was right. It's all the same to me, I'm pay protected, and after enough gate returns the company would get the message and fix the APUs. Some of you people get wound up way too tight over this stuff.

 

[Draginass]

I have never heard of any airline (majors included) where an item can be deferred and a pilot gets to trump the MEL out of hand.

Absolutely false. You don't know what you're talking about. I've personally seen several captains turn down aircraft due to items that were MEL'able, yet in their opinion the item in question was required for safe conduct of the flight. Period. Dot. End of discussion. I have myself, personally turned down aircraft with MEL items for exactly the same reason.

Please tell us what company you work for that does not allow their Captains to exercise their judgment (on the safer side) concerning the airworthiness of the aircraft, because I don't want me or my family flying on it.

 

[DrunkIrishman]

No you don't. Find me a reg and I'll buy you a beer.

oh, and notice the quotes around my calling myself "This Captain". I was making a point to the guy I was responding to. He referred to himself as "this Captain" in his post and I thought it a tad over the top.

I wasn't referring to a reg; rather the CRJ type you have listed. It is in the CRJ MEL...which is what we were talking about right...MEL's?

I don't follow the FAR's these days...

 

[DrewBlows]

obviously something wasn't warranted as the court case with the individual at question is already over an he lost. gia must of had a substantial reason to fire this individual

He was an "at will" employee, which means he wasn't covered by a contract, personal or collectively bargained. The only things he couldn't be fired for are race, ethnicity, religion, national origin, age, sex, family status, disability, veteran status, or genetic information. GIA could have fired him for not tying his shoelaces properly and been within their rights...that doesn't make it right though.

 

[glasspilot]

Absolutely false. You don't know what you're talking about. I've personally seen several captains turn down aircraft due to items that were MEL'able, yet in their opinion the item in question was required for safe conduct of the flight. Period. Dot. End of discussion. I have myself, personally turned down aircraft with MEL items for exactly the same reason.

Please tell us what company you work for that does not allow their Captains to exercise their judgment (on the safer side) concerning the airworthiness of the aircraft, because I don't want me or my family flying on it.

grrrrr, I'm back. You missed text in my post where I said, "OUT OF HAND". That means it's in the MEL but you deny it anyway without apparent reason.

Some ding dong above brought up an APU in summer. If it's that hot I'd turn it down too. The point is I'd have a reason to usurp the MEL. I've been singing the same song all along. If it's in the MEL then it's okay unless the PIC still feels it's unsafe. However, a deferred TCAS is still a go item. There should be an extra-ordinary reason (like it's wicked hot in the APU discussion) to over ride the MEL. You can not just say you disagree with the MEL, here it comes..., "out of hand". You tell you Chief Pilot that the MEL is wrong and 95% of you are looking for a new job. Period. Dot. End of sentence.

The GIA pilot set himself up 1, by working for a scum bag outfit like GIA and 2. by being retarded (much like a bunch of you guys).

 

[JustaNumber]

Nobody is claiming the MEL is wrong. We're all talking about refusing legally deferred airplanes for additional reasons.

The main point you don't get is that the issue here is not the valid merits or lack of merits of safety decisions, but rather WHO is making those decisions. Do you want the chief pilot having to sign off on every go/no go item (especially at a dirtbag outfit), or do you want the captain making the hard choices? Any person can err with either too much risk or too much conservatism, but it's least likely to be a poor decision if the decision-maker has to ride in the darn thing. You know you agree with me.

 

[Tarzan]

Some ding dong above brought up an APU in summer. If it's that hot I'd turn it down too. The point is I'd have a reason to usurp the MEL. I've been singing the same song all along. If it's in the MEL then it's okay unless the PIC still feels it's unsafe. However, a deferred TCAS is still a go item.

I'm going out to Freeport. I have a brand new FO who probably does know his head form a hole in the ground. I now can't go above 10K so I am going to be see and avoid with controllers are who sometimes marginal. I'd rather get another airplane. Or if I have to keep it, send me some place where I keep the FAA sort fo controllers.

How's that?

 

[B52GUNNER]

I'm going out to Freeport. I have a brand new FO who probably does know his head form a hole in the ground. I now can't go above 10K so I am going to be see and avoid with controllers are who sometimes marginal. I'd rather get another airplane. Or if I have to keep it, send me some place where I keep the FAA sort fo controllers.

How's that?

If you are going to Freeport, chances are you aren't going over 10k anyway.

A TCAS is not an air to air intercept radar that is going to give you exact positions of aircraft around you. you are still see and avoid. only marginally better. How many mid-air's happen out there in the islands? None really come to mind.

You can refuse an airplane for any reason. You just have to be able to back up the reason. No VCS in summer.....no problem. No TCAS on a clear day..you got a problem.

 

[JustaNumber]

No TCAS on a clear day..you got a problem.

Most midairs occur on a perfectly clear day, when everybody and their mother is out flying. Just something else to think about.

 

[Lord Wakefield]

I normally don't have much use for Wikipedia, but they have a lot of useful and accurate info on this outfit going back to its earliest days.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulfstream_International_Airlines

 

[Lord Wakefield]

Disregard, I just checked the entry and it has been completely whitewashed.

Maybe the site is policed by the advertising dept at the airline?

 

[Lord Wakefield]

It's back up on Wiki. The new PR manager must have went home for the weekend.

The Wall Street Journal has a new article out. This time they say that 3M was letting unauthorized passengers ride in the jumpseat. These articles were pretty informative this past week, but would someone tell me where the jumpseat is on a 1900?

 

[Cardinal]

Their Brasilia's have a jumpseat.

 

[Lord Wakefield]

I stand corrected.

Way back, Avtar used to have prospective students ride in the jumpseat of the Shorts