Logbook Lies

[Smarta$$]

Ummm, no. The lax rules regarding pilots self-certifying their logbooks remain because pilots are not all guilty of forging entries. Most resent the accusation. If you commit fraud in your logbook, you are in a lonely and vile minority. There is no rationalization, no glorification, no sympathy, and no tolerance for that in aviation.

Whatever the reward, it becomes hollow when one knows it is not true.

Fly SAFE!
Jedi Nein

Absolutely agreed!

 

[Lear70]

Part 121 flying is multiple crewmembers. Only the pilot flying (sole manipulator of the controls) can log Actual Instrument. Thus, Actual Instrument time can only be logged every other leg, while Total Time is obviously logged for both legs. Thus, the percentage of Actual Instument time logged in relation to TT should go DOWN when doing 121 flying.

Incorrect. You are ASSUMING what kind of weather you are flying in and that it remained the same as your previous flying experience.

I never, ever log instrument time unless I am the PF. Start flying winters, in the soup on short hops (40 minutes to an hour) never getting much above FL 25,0 and your instrument time will go up dramatically over being an instructor and flying VMC 99% of the time.

Just because YOUR instrument time went down, doesn't mean everyone else's does. Don't apply YOUR background as a RULE to everyone else's flight time, no one has the right to make an ASSumption about people's flight times.

You say you flew alot of night freight. Why didn't you log it???

WTF? You lost me. I logged all my night freight time, all as it occurred either PIC or SIC depending on my assignment by the company, night time as applicable (I have nearly 2,000 hours of night time at 7,000 hours total time, roughly just under 30% of my flight time).

p.s. I wagged (Wild A*s Guess) my times on the first post and updated my resume with my logbooks this weekend for individual aircraft PIC/SIC time for a potential employer and realized I had added up my night time wrong - had about 500 more night time than I thought.

 

[Gorilla]

"Everyone does it?" :erm:

And some of you guys grumble and moan and ask "Why oh why do they seem to prefer .mil pilots?" Pretty tough to pencil whip a mainframe computer-generated military log, and lie about training.

No offense to all honest pilots working hard at whatever entry-level flying job they're doing. Offense intended to the dishonest. It sucks that bad apples paint all purely civilian pilots with logs that tend to cause extra scrutiny at an interview.

 

[DeucesWild]

your instrument time will go up dramatically over being an instructor and flying VMC 99% of the time.

I guess I incorrectly ASSumed that in your previous night freight job you would be logging something other than 99% VMC. Did you only get to make the run from the right seat when it was 'severe clear'? I admit I did assume it was single pilot, down low, and in the soup, and you would be logging Actual Instrument time on both legs.

updated my resume with my logbooks this weekend for individual aircraft PIC/SIC time for a potential employer

You are not considering leaving the Pinnacle of airlines are you, after so many years? You must be very senior.

 

[Inconceivable]

Are you kidding? I think senior management has his face on a wanted poster with a bonus to the manager who can term him on any trumped up charge that will stick.

 

[Lear70]

Are you kidding? I think senior management has his face on a wanted poster with a bonus to the manager who can term him on any trumped up charge that will stick.

Actually, I think the bonus is up to one year's salary and two week's extra paid vacation to the manager who sends me packing.

Seriously, if the company will terminate two senior Captains, one of which is a Check Airman, the other on the short list for Check Airman training, I have NO doubt where I'd stand in a termination meeting if I did something even VAGUELY offensive.

And, quite honestly, I've been trying to get out of here since I hit the 6 month mark, much less now I'm coming up on 5 years. And yes, that puts me at about #300 of 1,200 pilots, relatively senior and finally holding a decent schedule, which is the problem.

When I was first here, NO ONE was hiring and I was DESPERATE to leave. Reserve for 3 years SUCKED. Now that the majors and other desirable jobs (jetBlue) are hiring, I'm busting my butt to get on with one of them but there's ALSO dozens of jobs at other carriers that I WOULD have taken before, but now that I'm making $60k a year with 14 days off, they're not as appealing.

I know you were being sarcastic, but Pinnacle is about to experience an UNPRECEDENTED level of pilots leaving. Our on-time and completion performance will drop through the floor. In the next 90 days we will probably lose 35-40 Captains and about 60-80 F/O's, or approximately 10% of our seniority list will leave for FedEx (at least 10 I know of), AirTran, jetBlue, and NetJets (a buddy of mine talked to Derinda, she's received over 100 applications from Pinnacle pilots in the last 3 or 4 months).

Believe me, everyone here wants out except the super-senior age 50+ guys who are here for the duration.

 

[rtmcfi]

Part 121 flying is multiple crewmembers. Only the pilot flying (sole manipulator of the controls) can log Actual Instrument. Thus, Actual Instrument time can only be logged every other leg, while Total Time is obviously logged for both legs.

I don't think this is correct. There is no sole manipulator clause for logging instrument time. In part 121 flying, as a required crewmember, you are both considered to be operating the plane, whether you are the PF, or PNF.

Logging instrument approaches and landings is a different animal. This is where the sole manipulator clause kicks in, and you must be the PF in order to log it.

 

[Amish RakeFight]

"Actual" is considered a condition of flight and as such is required for each entry. PIC and SIC can legally log actual instruments should they encounter these conditions in flight.

 

[DeucesWild]

PIC and SIC can legally log actual instruments should they encounter these conditions in flight.

Not true. The PIC OR SIC can log Acutal Instrument only when they are the PF. Read the FAR's closely, or the FAA's guidelines to logging of flighttime. This is a common error many aviators make.

 

[xjcaptain]

Not true. The PIC OR SIC can log Acutal Instrument only when they are the PF. Read the FAR's closely, or the FAA's guidelines to logging of flighttime. This is a common error many aviators make.

Actually (pardon the pun) "Actual" is a condition of flight, same as Night. Are you saying that only the PIC or the SIC can log Night when they are PF. What does the other log? DAY? Now as far as counting approaches for currency that is a whole other matter.

 

[DeucesWild]

Actually (pardon the pun) "Actual" is a condition of flight, same as Night. Are you saying that only the PIC or the SIC can log Night when they are PF. What does the other log? DAY? Now as far as counting approaches for currency that is a whole other matter.

Point well taken. I read and reread FAR 61.51 and I can see both sides.

FAR 61.51 (g)(1), 'A person may log instrument time only for that flight time when the person operates the aircraft solely by reference to instruments...'

I do know that I have been taught by more than one instructor that only the PF logs Actual Instrument time. I also know that I have heard this same argument several times in various aviation circles. I chose to error on the side of caution and only log it, if I was the flying pilot. I vaguely remember one time when I was witness to this discussion, someone quoted an FAA legal interpretation. Has anyone seen an FAA legal interpretation on this issue? How do Flightinfo users log instrument time?