Logbook Lies

[Dave Benjamin]

We are all guilty of adding the .5 to actual or total time.

Hardly. Don't try to rationalize lying by saying everyone else is doing it. Padding a logbook is fraud. If you're honest you have nothing to worry about. If I ever decided to apply somewhere else I'd have no worries about anything in my logbooks because I know the time was accurately recorded.

 

[ultrarunner]

FedEx is likely to take the closest look. In their application they ask for PIC time. As has been discussed and established, their requirement is Aircraft Commander.

In my interivew, they asked me to turn to the page in my log books that corresponded to my FIRST 135 PIC check. Naturally, this page was marked, and as I always did, the FSI sticker is affixed to that page. The interivewer looked at the PIC time at that page and at the PIC time on my last page in my last log book, then compared that to what I put on my application and everything matched up. He was actually impressed and made a few comments on how folks log time.

Somewhat related, he remarked that "...I know you've been flying jets and loging time correctly since you have 8000 hrs and only 500 actual..."

He went on to say that some folks come in here with lots of jet time and thousands of hrs of actual...and we know that's no right...

Interesting in what they look for.

 

[Turbosnake03]

dosen't a PRIA show all of your time with a certain company?? wouldn't this fact alone bust most of these people??

 

[ultrarunner]

dosen't a PRIA show all of your time with a certain company?? wouldn't this fact alone bust most of these people??

No, no flight hours, unless the employer specifically choose to included it on their own accord. Which is not likely.

A typical employer will simply fill out the PRIA form as presented and return it.

 

[trainer8]

dosen't a PRIA show all of your time with a certain company?? wouldn't this fact alone bust most of these people??

PRIA will show a training events by code, hour(s) involved in the training event and SAT or UNSAT or INC (Incomplete).

T8

 

[Tyro]

We are all guilty of adding the .5 to actual or total time.

Not True.

 

[HughBeamont]

I'd say we are all guilty of estimating how many clouds we flew through on the third day of last month, and of how many minutes of time we flew after one hour of civil twilight had passed. Get the important things (total, pic, etc) dead on and do the best job estimating you can at the other stuff.

 

[COOPERVANE]

PIC=A/C commander

I know 2 female pilots that logged PIC time in a lear 35 at the same time. They justified it under the 1 "PIC", 1 "sole manipulator" They are BOTH at SWA and even interviewed at the same time. No one there caught it or maybe didn't care.

I DO NOT agree with that practice and have argued till I was blue in the face with several pilots who I have met that did it.

I dont CARE if you have a type rating and you are flying the plane on this leg. Unless you signed for the A/C and the other guy is logging SIC you are not PIC!!

Also, met a guy once that logged EVERY hour of night flight as actual in the LEAR. Told me that it was "flight by reference to instruments" at night so he should log it that way. 3000 TT and he had 2000 Inst.

Honesty is dead. It's not your fathers country

 

[JumpCaptain]

I knew a guy once that flew a LR55 and logged everything over FL180 as actual instrument.

When he went to an airline interview with 2500TT and 2000 "actual Instrument", boy did they get a good chuckle out of that!

Sadly, I think he flies for a major now.

 

[ultrarunner]

I dont CARE if you have a type rating and you are flying the plane on this leg. Unless you signed for the A/C and the other guy is logging SIC you are not PIC!

That's all well and good if you come from a 121 or 135 background.

But no one "signs" for planes in the 91 world.

 

[Lear70]

That's all well and good if you come from a 121 or 135 background.

But no one "signs" for planes in the 91 world.

Sure they do.

When I was flying for Flexjet we operated ALL flights Part 91.

We then had a designated Captain who signed the logbook on every flight. Many of our SIC's would log PIC time on every leg they flew. I was guilty of that and, once I learned better, actually had to start another logbook and re-log all of my time at Flexjet to get the times right.

Bottom line: if you're flying an aircraft that requires two pilots, even Part 91, one of you should be logging PIC, the other SIC. If you're not, be prepared to answer some pretty tough questions on an interview. We're not trying to be jerks about it, just trying to save you some BIG problems.

Most PROFESSIONAL companies (FedEx, SWA) don't like Part 61.51 PIC time (sole manipulator of the controls) if you weren't, at that time, the designated Captain for whatever company you were working for. I'll cost you a job (and any future interviews there) some day if you're not careful.

 

[ultrarunner]

Sure they do.

When I was flying for Flexjet we operated ALL flights Part 91.

Share programs are the exception. I highly doubt the majority of smaller 91 companies, operating a single aircraft actually "designate" a captain.

I manage such a two-pilot department. And I don't.

 

[Lear70]

Share programs are the exception. I highly doubt the majority of smaller 91 companies, operating a single aircraft actually "designate" a captain.

I manage such a two-pilot department. And I don't.

That's highly interesting.

Almost every single corporate job posting I see on planejobs or climbto350 ALWAYS list whether they're hiring for a Captain position or First Officer / Copilot position.

If you're hired on as such, I would submit that you KNOW you're not the designated PIC.

Your operation, of course, is probably an exception where EVERYONE is hired as a Co-Captain or some such thing, which I find to compromise safety. SOMEONE has to be the final word in an emergency. In a perfect world, both pilots would agree on the safest course of action, but we all know that sometimes that doesn't happen. So who is the final say in your aircraft?

 

[ultrarunner]

Your operation, of course, is probably an exception where EVERYONE is hired as a Co-Captain or some such thing, which I find to compromise safety.

I disagee, and our safety record speaks for itself.

SOMEONE has to be the final word in an emergency....So who is the final say in your aircraft?

The PF

 

[JediNein]

We are all guilty of adding the .5 to actual or total time.

Ummm, no. The lax rules regarding pilots self-certifying their logbooks remain because pilots are not all guilty of forging entries. Most resent the accusation. If you commit fraud in your logbook, you are in a lonely and vile minority. There is no rationalization, no glorification, no sympathy, and no tolerance for that in aviation.

Whatever the reward, it becomes hollow when one knows it is not true.

Fly SAFE!
Jedi Nein