Logbook Lies

[dueguard1]

Interviewed w/ some guy who had the nerve to have 2000 total, and only been flyng for for about 18 months...plus he had just completed his Comm Multi only three months before the interview......but at the time Pinnacle wasn't scrutinizing the logbooks so heavy.

 

[Lear70]

What, are you KIDDING ME?

Pinnacle doesn't scrutinize ANYTHING if you can pass the written and they like your personality.

Warm bodies, no one seems to understand that yet. We're not adding ANY new aircraft but the last two or three bids have been for 40-50 F/O's EVERY MONTH. You do the math.

As far as falsifying my logbook, there have been times when I've looked back and, for a brief moment, wish I had falsified mine. My buddy and I got calls for JetBlue interviews the first month they were EVER operating. We had flown Lears together, him as my F/O, and we both went other places in the same month. He went to Colgan on the 1900, I went to Express One on the 727.

He flew 1,200 hours in a year and a half and still hadn't upgraded, I flew 600 and had just upgraded to CA. He got the interview, I didn't, all because he had 1,000 hours in an aircraft over 20,000 lbs and I only had 600, even though I had both Lear and 727 PIC experience and he had zero turbine PIC.

Then, two years ago, I interviewed for a direct-entry Corporate 727 Captain position flying basketball teams around out of Chicago. My company had gone T.U. and they had NO PRIA records, so the ONLY proof about my flight times were in my logbooks. I could EASILY have lied and tripled my PIC time from 25 hours a month to 75 hours a month for 7 months which would have given me the 500 hours PIC they needed and I'd be making $125k a year working 14 days a month instead of 70k a year working 18 days a month right now.

Stories like that are enough to tempt ANYONE, but what it all boils down to is your ethics. Do you want to be the kind of person that, deep down, is nothing but a liar? Do you want to look back on your career and know that your LIES are the only thing that got you to where you are? Do you want to be one of those stories of people who get busted back to zero time with no ratings? All but two of the 10 instructors at my flight school got busted sharing time (2 or 3 instructors logging the same student in the same plane). Stupidity or Lack of morality? Which is it for you?

Incidentally, NO ONE has EVER validated my logbooks, and I've interviewed at:

Turboprop Part 135 operator - never opened them
Lear 135 operator - never opened them
Flexjet - never opened them
Express One (727's) - never opened them
United - looked at them for 30 seconds
Pinnacle - looked at them for 30 seconds as well
Southwest - looked at them for 30 seconds and verified three times they needed.
A couple 727 operators hiring direct-entry Captains and some corporate operators - never opened them

Southwest just looked for the specific times they needed, but when you have 6,000 hours and 5 previous flying jobs, it would be a lot more difficult to pick out errors than if you're a 1,500 hour pilot with one or two jobs instructing or flying cxld checks.

Oh, and p.s. 10% IFR and Night is about right for people who haven't flown Part 121 yet. Those times go up to 20% if you're based in the Northeast as a 121 operator. I have about 7,000 total, 1,200 IFR, 1,500 Night, but I flew a lot of night freight, too.

 

[Inconceivable]

Actually R...Lear 70,

You should ask around about the case of David W. in 2001.

Was doing transition training from the saab to the Jet when some new hires in the saab mentioned that ehy had gone to flight school to their instructor who hated him. Turns out that, in 18 months at Express including Saab initial, upgrade, and jet upgrade his total time had incrased by 2100 hours from his application to his system prefernce bid.

Terry asked to see his logbooks and he kept stalling, claiming he couldn't find them--turns out he was using the time to pencil whip them, in time for a suspension hearing. Dumb child brings them, Terry photocopies them and sends him hope. Terry then called Mr. Josephs.

David W. does not hold any FAA certificates today.

Irony: He owns a catering business in TPA and makes more $$$ than he would have at PCL with a lot more security. Who said cheaters never prosper?

 

[Lear70]

Terry asked to see his logbooks and he kept stalling, claiming he couldn't find them--turns out he was using the time to pencil whip them, in time for a suspension hearing. Dumb child brings them, Terry photocopies them and sends him hope. Terry then called Mr. Josephs.

David W. does not hold any FAA certificates today.

Sounds about Terry's speed. Nice guy until you piss him off, then you never see it coming.

Irony: He owns a catering business in TPA and makes more $$$ than he would have at PCL with a lot more security. Who said cheaters never prosper?

Yeah, but he'll always wonder about his lost career and how many years and tens of thousands he spent on flight training just to lose it all.

I could go into Commercial Real Estate with the rest of my family and make $120k to $150k a year, but I'd be working 6 days a week, 12 hours a day to do it. Similar to what Mr. W has going with his catering business - people who own their own food service businesses live, eat, and drink their work. I'm not interested in working that hard, nor losing everything I've spent 15 years building.

 

[T-prop]

I know of a check-airman at a 121 who pencil-whipped his/her 300 hr logbook for a turbine single pilot charter job in order to meet the 135 mins. Passed training, flew there for a year got on with the airline he/she is at now. Good pilot, nice person. I didn't know what to think since it happened 8+ years ago.

It just ain't right.

 

[DoinTime]

Actually R...Lear 70,

You should ask around about the case of David W. in 2001.

Was doing transition training from the saab to the Jet when some new hires in the saab mentioned that ehy had gone to flight school to their instructor who hated him. Turns out that, in 18 months at Express including Saab initial, upgrade, and jet upgrade his total time had incrased by 2100 hours from his application to his system prefernce bid.

Terry asked to see his logbooks and he kept stalling, claiming he couldn't find them--turns out he was using the time to pencil whip them, in time for a suspension hearing. Dumb child brings them, Terry photocopies them and sends him hope. Terry then called Mr. Josephs.

David W. does not hold any FAA certificates today.

Irony: He owns a catering business in TPA and makes more $$$ than he would have at PCL with a lot more security. Who said cheaters never prosper?

Everyone hated "Watchoutski" and his lips were about as loose as a $10 street walker. It was only a matter of time before the truth caught up with him. Sad thing is that even through upgrading in the Saab and the CRJ nobody had a clue his books were cooked until someone ratted him out.

 

[DoinTime]

The FAA's record keeping system relies entirely on honesty. Nothing is safe from the audacity and daring of an individual pilot. One of the best examples is one of Mesaba's ex-chief pilots that pencil whipped his medical certificate for years.

 

[AMANSWORLD]

Cannot believe the lack of integrity, here seriously. This is not something to even discuss on here. IMHO.

 

[WhiteCloud]

Sounds about Terry's speed. Nice guy until you piss him off, then you never see it coming.

It's called backstabbing.

 

[Inconceivable]

Dointime--

actually he was the only person in the entire class of upgrades not to pink on the first go in the sim....That includes Ed's son, Sean "Ann Coulter" P., Tim McVeigh #2, and The "Jumpseat".

come to think of it, that was a pretty f'ed up class....I think everyone but Sean has been fired.

 

[Dave Benjamin]

We are all guilty of adding the .5 to actual or total time.

Hardly. Don't try to rationalize lying by saying everyone else is doing it. Padding a logbook is fraud. If you're honest you have nothing to worry about. If I ever decided to apply somewhere else I'd have no worries about anything in my logbooks because I know the time was accurately recorded.

 

[ultrarunner]

FedEx is likely to take the closest look. In their application they ask for PIC time. As has been discussed and established, their requirement is Aircraft Commander.

In my interivew, they asked me to turn to the page in my log books that corresponded to my FIRST 135 PIC check. Naturally, this page was marked, and as I always did, the FSI sticker is affixed to that page. The interivewer looked at the PIC time at that page and at the PIC time on my last page in my last log book, then compared that to what I put on my application and everything matched up. He was actually impressed and made a few comments on how folks log time.

Somewhat related, he remarked that "...I know you've been flying jets and loging time correctly since you have 8000 hrs and only 500 actual..."

He went on to say that some folks come in here with lots of jet time and thousands of hrs of actual...and we know that's no right...

Interesting in what they look for.

 

[Turbosnake03]

dosen't a PRIA show all of your time with a certain company?? wouldn't this fact alone bust most of these people??

 

[ultrarunner]

dosen't a PRIA show all of your time with a certain company?? wouldn't this fact alone bust most of these people??

No, no flight hours, unless the employer specifically choose to included it on their own accord. Which is not likely.

A typical employer will simply fill out the PRIA form as presented and return it.

 

[trainer8]

dosen't a PRIA show all of your time with a certain company?? wouldn't this fact alone bust most of these people??

PRIA will show a training events by code, hour(s) involved in the training event and SAT or UNSAT or INC (Incomplete).

T8

 

[Tyro]

We are all guilty of adding the .5 to actual or total time.

Not True.

 

[HughBeamont]

I'd say we are all guilty of estimating how many clouds we flew through on the third day of last month, and of how many minutes of time we flew after one hour of civil twilight had passed. Get the important things (total, pic, etc) dead on and do the best job estimating you can at the other stuff.

 

[COOPERVANE]

PIC=A/C commander

I know 2 female pilots that logged PIC time in a lear 35 at the same time. They justified it under the 1 "PIC", 1 "sole manipulator" They are BOTH at SWA and even interviewed at the same time. No one there caught it or maybe didn't care.

I DO NOT agree with that practice and have argued till I was blue in the face with several pilots who I have met that did it.

I dont CARE if you have a type rating and you are flying the plane on this leg. Unless you signed for the A/C and the other guy is logging SIC you are not PIC!!

Also, met a guy once that logged EVERY hour of night flight as actual in the LEAR. Told me that it was "flight by reference to instruments" at night so he should log it that way. 3000 TT and he had 2000 Inst.

Honesty is dead. It's not your fathers country

 

[JumpCaptain]

I knew a guy once that flew a LR55 and logged everything over FL180 as actual instrument.

When he went to an airline interview with 2500TT and 2000 "actual Instrument", boy did they get a good chuckle out of that!

Sadly, I think he flies for a major now.

 

[ultrarunner]

I dont CARE if you have a type rating and you are flying the plane on this leg. Unless you signed for the A/C and the other guy is logging SIC you are not PIC!

That's all well and good if you come from a 121 or 135 background.

But no one "signs" for planes in the 91 world.