LOA for Compass and Mesaba flow ups to DL

[GOULET!]

why 108 from Mesaba? Why not 110 or 150?

Per the original agreement Mesaba was allowed to flow 9 pilots per month so under the LOA they are allowed to flow one year's worth of pilots to Delta (9 pilots x 12 months= 108 pilots). I'm amazed that anybody would bypass the flow at Mesaba. I know there have only been 2-3 pilots at Compass that have bypassed in the 60ish or so people that have already gotten seniority numbers.

 

[flap operator]

Here we go again... first, the top 124 have already had their opportunity to flow. Most bypassed but 14 flowed to NWA pre merger. Our top 124 have been at XJ for a very long time. Some in the neighborhood of 30 years. Our most senior was hired in 1981 and is 61 years old. The most junior of that top 124 that bypassed was hired in 1995 and is 47 years old. So if you were 60+ making over 100K getting everything you want, would you flow? Probably not. Everyone has their own reasons and believe it or not, do not find DL as the holy grail.

Of the next 108 who are eligible, very few will bypass. In fact only 7 have indicated they don't want to flow. A couple are "older" born in the 50s and the others I'm sure have their reasons. Several have either not indicated either way or are not eligible. This group makes up another senior bunch with 12-20 years seniority. The most senior eligible was hired in 1995 as well and the most junior eligible to flow was hired in 1998.

So obviously, the majority will flow. The ones that don't either can't or have personal reasons for not doing so. There's no reason to paint these guys as being stupid, lazy, incompetent or somehow moronic for not wanting to flow.

 

[mynameisjim]

The rumors are for a lot of hiring. Only 25% of the Compass list can flow in a rolling 12 month period.

True although the new loa says those limits can be waived upon joint agreement of the two companies.

 

[Xcorporate]

Per the original agreement Mesaba was allowed to flow 9 pilots per month so under the LOA they are allowed to flow one year's worth of pilots to Delta (9 pilots x 12 months= 108 pilots). I'm amazed that anybody would bypass the flow at Mesaba. I know there have only been 2-3 pilots at Compass that have bypassed in the 60ish or so people that have already gotten seniority numbers.

Gotcha, thanks.

 

[NuGuy]

And just to add, the flow down is still in place at CPZ...otherwise the company would have had to redo their 76 seat numbers.

Nu

 

[xjhawk]

Ummm, help Mesaba guys? I call it a big screw job for hundreds of Mesaba pilots. Not even all of the 108 can flow because they do not have degrees. I would not mind finding out who was behind that decision and giving them the ..... we shall say my opinion on why it was a bad decision. Please hope American and United (Continental) start hiring within three years

 

[GogglesPisano]

Not even all of the 108 can flow because they do not have degrees.

Where is that language?

 

[Raskal]

Ummm, help Mesaba guys? I call it a big screw job for hundreds of Mesaba pilots. Not even all of the 108 can flow because they do not have degrees. I would not mind finding out who was behind that decision and giving them the ..... we shall say my opinion on why it was a bad decision. Please hope American and United (Continental) start hiring within three years

You know who was behind it. Though I have to admit, I didn't expect even this much. I disagree with the degree requirement also, those pilots should be able to flow under the old agreement.

As for United/Con...we're all hoping the hiring will be there, I hear ya.

 

[flap operator]

Move on already guys! The deal is done. There's no point in constantly complaining about what we did or didn't get. The complaining on this thread is making XJ pilots look like a bunch of ungrateful and whining babies! All this energy should be channeled into making sure the merger committee and negotiating committee are well aware of the wants/needs of the pilot group so that we end up with the best possible outcome for SLI and joint contract. Any XJ pilot with the desire and ability to leave pre and post PCL sale should have had their resumes dusted off and should have been in full swing in an honest and aggressive job search. If not... well, that's your own fault.

 

[big shacks]

Thanks Flap..sick of hearing about how we got screwed...get over it!

 

[callowayhd]

Ummm, help Mesaba guys? I call it a big screw job for hundreds of Mesaba pilots. Not even all of the 108 can flow because they do not have degrees. I would not mind finding out who was behind that decision and giving them the ..... we shall say my opinion on why it was a bad decision. Please hope American and United (Continental) start hiring within three years

cry me a river, build me a bridge, name it "i do not care" and get over it

they concluded your 6 years of ready reserve do NOT make you elgible to flow.

 

[B727FA]

Respectfully, can someone give insight to the flow coming now in light of the sale of the carriers to "3rd Parties?" I know there is an LOA in place; but surely part of the "cost" of the purchase of CZ and XJ has to be replacement hiring for the flows going to DL. Please understand, I know the LOA will go with the certs as they sell. But there has to be SOMETHING in it for TSA and PCL to make it worth it to "lose" these guys/gals. Also, was this done "only" with NWA carriers--and therefor no "flow" to/from OH, EV, OO? (Please keep Strike 2000 chest-beating to a minimum.)

 

[GRAAB HIRBOUBI]

I don't think the cost of replacing pilots is an issue. The Compass flow was never like ours. Complete flow up/down. If that flow disappeared the number of 76 seaters is reduced and 6 seats come out of a lot of 900's. So Compass has some leverage in its favor.

Mesaba never had any leverage in this negotiation. We had limited flow up/back - 9 a month. Our 900's were mostly part of a NWA carve out because they were looked at like an AVRO replacement (yep - I know they are included in the count). I believe there is a benefit to Mesaba of getting some higher paid Captains off the payroll but training is expensive so it's hard to know if there is a net benefit.

I happen to not have been in favor of the flow because I feel it was imposed on me. But unfortunately our union had no leverage to get a better deal. And while I never planned on going, I do feel disappointed for my friends who were planning to go but will never get the chance.

I am very happy for the people that get to go. Great pilots, awesome people.

 

[B727FA]

Thx for the thoughts...

 

[relief tube]

this is an absolute gift. all at compass should go buy a lottery ticket.

 

[Jar Jar]

this is an absolute gift. all at compass should go buy a lottery ticket.

Gift? BS.

The CPZ flow and the associated consequences of it disappearing were put in place when CPZ was formed. CPZ was created as a scope concession, and instead of NWA pilots taking a pay raise for their concession they decided to create a flow-through program.

Its not a gift. In fact, I would argue that it was one of the cheapest scope concessions of all-time. The only thing DAL/NWA had to give up is where they hired 400 people from, all of whom meet their hiring requirements to begin with.

It only looks like the CPZ guys got lucky if you hadn't been paying attention to what was going on there for the past few years. If you had, it would appear that DAL got lucky.

 

[Moustache]

this is an absolute gift. All at compass should go buy a lottery ticket.

why are you so angry?