light at the end of the tunnel?

[LASvegas777]

will there be a light at the end of the tunnel when all these times pass? after reading the USA today article and reading a post regarding how pilots work for years and make sacfices to get that high paying job at a major, just like doctors and lawyers do, at what point does being a pilot not make it worth it. given you can make alot as a regional captain, but when the benefits of working for a major airline are no longer there but still requires all the hard work, sacrifices and time away from your family when is it not worth it? i dont think many doctors or lawyers would continue thier profession if they topped out at 90K a year with no type of pension, and questionable job security knowing that if your company fails you go back to the bottom of the food chain even though having years of experience.
you dont see a surgeon leave for a new hospital and start there as a resident. with what has happened and what the future will most likely hold for airline pilot careers, is it worth it with a chance that you might never reach the light at the end of the tunnel. i am a very optimistic and positive person, but i seem to find myself searching the internet for other career opportunities from time to time and then say what am i doing, i want to be a pilot. any others share this frustration? please respond thanks

 

[Hugh Jorgan]

The light at the end of the tunnel is a train.

But seriously, I recently separated from the military. I turned my nose up at a promotion, a bonus that would have put my income into six digits and a guaranteed job for virtually as long as I wanted. I am currently in ground training for a 121 operation that is paying me 10 bucks an hour for ground school and when I successfully finish, I'll be making under 20 bucks an hour. Sounds like I'm crazy, but I'm happier than a pig in $hit. I loved the military and I love what I'm doing now. It was just time to move on. If I'm lucky enough to land the big fish, great, if not, well, that's pretty much a good possibility too. I think we all know what we are getting into in this business. I'm thinking your analogy of doctors and lawyers isn't really applicable, but I see what you are saying. I'd rather be a poor pilot than a rich lawyer anyday! Those who make the big sacrifices for extended periods of time do so for a love of flying. Is it worth it? Depends on the individual. Is it worth it for me? Heck yeah! Would I move on to another field? Well, whatever I have to do to put wax on the board and rice in my belly. Everything is cyclical. Things will get better. They may get worse first, but things will improve. In the words of Charlie Papazian, Relax, don't worry and have a homebrew!

 

[wil]

I just happened to be in our "crew lounge" this morning talking with 2 Captains that I had flown with as an FO. One flew F-111, F-16'S and the other KC-135. One is in reserves as LTC and the other retired as an LTC. Both have been at ASA for about 8 years. Both are excellent pilots and I really enjoyed flying with them. So why weren't they at the majors you ask? Early 90's was a bad time, etc. There is no "golden ticket" to the Majors! Then as you build seniority why take the gamble with kids in college. A million reasons I'm sure. Of course the Majors are the goal- I'd be lying if I said I didn't want to fly a 757, etc. But, life throws curve balls and sometimes we get comfotable where we are. I may only see the 70 seater in my career because if this industry is on it's back for 5 years I'm not going to the bottom of a list at 41! So I'll settle for a career , that in the future , will pay me in the low 6 figures, good 401k, and worldwide travel benefits (first class to Ireland with the wife 0$!!). All things considered, I am truly blessed and love my job! BTW, my buddy is a doctor and guess what? After malpractice insurance, hospital fees, et cetera he is not making that much more than me- and his student loan payment is 1500.00 per month! Keep the faith!!

 

[mar]

A cliche to live by:

"Do what you love, the rest will follow."

 

[CaptainBrazilia]

Yes...there is a light...

I just sent my completed app package to SWA this morning via next-day. That's gonna be my light at the end of the tunnel until I'm sitting in class in Dallas!

 

[GuppyPuppy]

Sure its frustrating.....its good to vent once in a while, but try not to focus on the negative.

Here's my venting...I started my flying lessons in 1985 and finally made it to a major in Y2K. Furloughed a couple of months ago, but was lucky enough to land a job at a leading regional in February. Sure the pay is low (about 16% of what I had been making just 4 months ago. The first year will be a sacrifice, but pay will be liveable thereafter. I try to see it this way...everything I made above my self-defined liveable wage was gravy. Now the gravy is gone, and it'll be Top Ramen for a while, but I'll be back to meat and potatoes soon.

I have my own light at the end of the tunnel.

Good luck to all of you in these trying times.

Have an Amber!

Cheers!

GP

 

[mar]

360-hour peachy view of the world

Believe me, the oldtimers aren't grumbling about your 360 hour peachy view...

...they're grumbling because you still have 39 years left in this business and they'd like to be 21 again.

I'm not even an oldtimer but, man, if I were 21 again...

Good luck man.

 

[FurloughedAgain]

21 again

If I was 21 again and knew then what I know now...

Just being 21 again wouldnt help.

 

[duckman]

The light at the end of the tunnel is a train.

I'll be making under 20 bucks an hour. Sounds like I'm crazy, but I'm happier than a pig in $hit. Those who make the big sacrifices for extended periods of time do so for a love of flying. Is it worth it? Depends on the individual. Is it worth it for me? Heck yeah!

Hugh G. Recteon..(Oops Jorgan) A wonderful positive panacea outlook...would like to hear your view 15 yrs from now if you situation remains the same (ref. above)...

 

[FlyBoeingJets]

I sit at home in my apartment, checking these boards and seeing "757, 747, 737, etc." in people's profiles and thinking "that must be awesome." But honestly, I think that if tomorrow I started flying the line for a major in a 757 by age 60 I would be ready to shoot myself. It would be great for a while, but later it would just become routine. Nothing new.

Some of the "old timers" here on furlough may be grumbling at my "360-hour peachy view of the world", but I hate to tell you it won't change. Life is too short to be angry and miserable. You just take the punches, and make the best of it.

I get tingles and goosebumps thinking about the next 39 years of my life.

FlyChicago,

Everything you said has validity. I'm not trying to be a know-it-all, just trying to share my perspective (however limited that is)...

Some of us see in you some of ourselves and want to be like that again. I think many of us have had dreams that haven't come true and are just trying to pick up the pieces and move on. Maybe you have talked to the bottom 20% of pilots who are never happy with anything. I don't know. I do know that some airline pilots are happy. The key, IMHO, is recognizing and adapting to new realities. Too many of us fret over mistakes and the past.

I say go after your passion, but understand that some surprises and even failures will be in your future. How you deal with them is up to you. I can think of worse things to happen to me then achieving the state of "ennui" that you describe above. I would like to spend more time with my wife and kids. But I have already flown cool airplanes long enough with my "hair on fire" that I crave a more stable life.

IMHO, your desires and dreams will evolve over time. Good luck and I hope you get what you truly want.

 

[FlyBoeingJets]

Sometimes the light at the end of the tunnel is a train coming at you...

 

[pylut]

I spent years flight instructing and flying cargo with that stupid grin on my face that can only be truly appreciated by a pilot making 10,000 a year to actually fly an aeroplane....wow! I'd fly anything anywhere anytime, and did. Then went to the majors, thought I'd died and gone to heaven spent 6 years flying the 727 and the 80. Now I'm in real estate school pursuing career plan "B" for what I anticipate to be 5 years. Somehow flying cargo around in the middle of the night for an 85%pay cut just doesn't sound as fun as it used to. The thought of "donating" (17,000/yr just doesn't qualify as an income for a full time profession for a grown man) my time to a commuter is none to savory either. I'll check back on the aviation gig if and when it comes back together.

 

[shagadelic]

I guess I'm in a minority, but I chose this profession because it looked easy, paid well, and seemed to have a lot of time off so I could do the things I like to do and have the money to do it. I chose the military because in high school I knew of no other way to get to the airlines. I chose the Air Force Academy because at the time they guaranteed a pilot slot. When I started to get out of the Air Force I sent apps to everyone out there and was lucky enough to be interviewed and hired by SWA first. I am extremely happy with where I ended up and the luck I've had.

Having said that, I would never recommend this field to anyone. I got here through dumb luck, while most of my friends are jobless. This job is great, but it's not worth it for any less than a major pays. Obviously you have to pay your dues, but there must be light at the end of the tunnel. My 2 cents.

 

[Flyingdutchman]

''I guess I'm in a minority, but I chose this profession because it looked easy, paid well, and seemed to have a lot of time off so I could do the things I like to do and have the money to do it. ''

''Having said that, I would never recommend this field to anyone. I got here through dumb luck, while most of my friends are jobless. This job is great, but it's not worth it for any less than a major pays.''

Kidding me, right??? (if not, please do say that you are kidding me tnx)

 

[shagadelic]

I re-read my post and it doesn't sound like what I was trying to say. I would not have begun this career if I thought there was no chance to ever make the money that major guys make.

I would have no problem being a corporate or regional guy for several years in my quest for that golden ring. But if I thought I couldn't make it, I wouldn't have chosen this path. That's what I was trying to say...

Dumb luck as far as timing goes. Just like someone getting out of the military right now has horrible luck. And yes there was more thought put in to my decision than just easy work with good pay. I also thought it would be fun and exciting (does that make you feel better?? )

My life is at home with my wife and kids doing the things we enjoy. I thought flying would be fun; and it is. But it's a job. And I wouldn't recommend it to anyone just starting out right now. Take a look around. This industry is in shambles. That was my point.

Let me make one point clear...I LUV my job, and my company!!! I will be with this company for a very long time. Knowing what I know now, I wouldn't have changed a thing. And I certainly don't mean to be a downer. I hope there is a light at the end of the tunnel.

Ok, back to lurking....

 

[Flyingdutchman]

''Let me make one point clear...I LUV my job''

That sounds better mate!

Happy landings,
Fld.

 

[Bumble Bee]

Hey... Flying is a disease that has gotten the best of me... I love my job and even though I complain after six days in a row on line... Give me a day off and I'm ready to go again! Can't beat the view or the perks... And with a little luck and a lot of hard work I will get away from dirty sock soup... Yeah living my life at less than 30k isn't what I was planning on... But this is sure better than working! Light at the end of the tunnel??? Sure there is, it may just take a little longer for me to fell the LUV.

 

[Huck]

I flew with a captain at GAC that had bounced around 5 or 6 freight operators, including a couple in Africa. He said it best: when you boil it all down, the only things that matter are friends and family.

 

[Saabslime]

It's interesting to read all the different viewpoints shared here. I used to believe that flying an airplane for a living was the most important thing in my life. The more hours the better and the pay didn't really much matter as long as I was in the air. After all, I was single and didn't need much money. There's nothing you could have said to me at the time that would have discouraged me from pursuing my dream of becoming an airline pilot, or anything I would have given flying up for. I was much younger then without many ties or responsibilities.

Flash forward about a decade. A wife, child, two dogs and a mortgage payment. I've finally made it to the airlines. Been a captain for two years (soon to be downgraded back to F.O.). The pay is decent, the schedule is average, and I love the airplane I'm flying. It's the job I always dreamed about and you know what?, I'm starting to think about looking at different career options.

Like someone else above was saying, as you go through life, you're priorities change. My life isn't just about me and my desires/needs anymore. Those things are important for your personal health but you also have to compromise and strike a balance with the needs of your loved ones. Personally, this career has been hard on me and my family. After all its just an airplane and not worth destroying whats become most important in my life, and thats my family.

 

[tredding@swa]

Saab

Be careful..... you may not know it, but you just might be in the right place, at the right time.

Downgrading may hurt, but being senior enough to move quickly back UP when this gloom & doom is over might be better than a career change. Think about what you have been through (family too) to get where you are. Any change will put you back at the BOTTOM of wherever you go......

I did the career change thing in '94, came back to aviation in '97. It was a challange, but long-term it cost me BIG time.

Good luck - have fun, BTW you are doing the correct thing just by having the attitude you have concerning your priorities.
Tred