letter from retired AAA captain

[steveg]

Joe,

Sorry to interupt again, but this is not about ALPA.

It's about the Usair pilots trying to screw the AWA pilots period. Plain and simple. usapa is just wrapping it up in all this anti-ALPA crap to garner support. You are buying it hook line and sinker.

There ARE pilots out there that have legitimate and long standing beefs with ALPA. The Usair pilots are NOT in that group. The supposed wrongs they feel are self-inflicted, not the fault of ALPA.

Please do not continue to legitimize usapa at the expense of pilots that have been truly wronged by ALPA. usapa hurts everyone, not just ALPA. usapa was formed with the sole intent of harming another group. There is no LEGITIMATE cause for usapa.

I am not an ALPA cheerleader. However I AM against another group (usapa) continuing to harm this profession, and me personally, out of a false sense of entitlement.

 

[A350]

You can say that it is the intent of USAPA to harm another group....IMO, the Nicolau award was the straw that finally broke the camels back.

No AAA pilot, except Bebee and the MEC officers were happy with ALPA after BK1. The stuff that happened under the watchful eyes of ALPA National since 9/11 has sealed their fate.

Better to stand up and fight than to go out with a wimper on your knees.....That is what ALPA is all about. Lay YOUR career at the feet of someone else who will benefit for the good of the profession. Mind you, the people who are screaming the most about that have never had to endure anything like the AAA pilots have.

Does the APA, the IPA, and the SWAPA harm the profession? I didn't think so.

A350

 

[JoeMerchant]

Joe,

Sorry to interupt again, but this is not about ALPA.

It's about the Usair pilots trying to screw the AWA pilots period. Plain and simple. usapa is just wrapping it up in all this anti-ALPA crap to garner support. You are buying it hook line and sinker.

There ARE pilots out there that have legitimate and long standing beefs with ALPA. The Usair pilots are NOT in that group. The supposed wrongs they feel are self-inflicted, not the fault of ALPA.

Please do not continue to legitimize usapa at the expense of pilots that have been truly wronged by ALPA. usapa hurts everyone, not just ALPA. usapa was formed with the sole intent of harming another group. There is no LEGITIMATE cause for usapa.

I am not an ALPA cheerleader. However I AM against another group (usapa) continuing to harm this profession, and me personally, out of a false sense of entitlement.

This is very much about ALPA.....If some leadership doesn't come forward in Herndon....this will only be the first "USAPA"....There will be more.....

The ALPA supporters are manufactoring fake letters to make USAPA look bad....That is actually a very common tactic that ALPA uses to discredit it's opponents....One that management also uses....

ALPA groups have screwed fellow ALPA groups for years.....It doesn't really matter what your id lanyard says....

I'm not defending the USAir guys.....They have made many mistakes over the years and have caused much of their own misery IMO.....However it is time to challenge the ALPA power structure....Maybe something better can rise from the ashes......

 

[PCL_128]

Does the APA, the IPA, and the SWAPA harm the profession?

Indirectly, yes. For pilots to have the most leverage, they all need to be unified under a single banner.

 

[CopilotDoug]

yet you can't provide critical analysis of why.

You operate on emotion...

Whew! For a sec I thought you were going to say I operated on Selfishness and Greed. I must be moving up in your eyes!

The failures I've seen under the ALPA brand have convinced me that ALPA is a set of ideas that when put to practice at various carriers, yield different results. Some good, some bad. And when it does yield bad results, the guys in Herndon are not to be held accountable.

I choose not to associate with a Union with these practices. Fair enough?

 

[CopilotDoug]

Prove him wrong. Where is your objective analysis? Where are your answers to his questions? All we see from you is uncontrolled emotion. Such is typical of the anti-ALPA set.

Prove him wrong? Rez has his opinions, PCL. And that's fine. I have mine too. Can you prove an opinion wrong?

You and Rez like attaching the "uncontrolled emotion" label to people. How about your arguments for ALPA? The sky is going to fall if AAA decertifies ALPA! You're arguments are based on emotion too: fear.

 

[TurboAWD]

Better to stand up and fight than to go out with a wimper on your knees.....

So that's why the AAA guys voted "NO" to those POS concessions that helped drag down the rest of the industry, right?

Oh, wait.

Those in glass houses...

 

[A350]

Turbo:

I would expect nothing less from a fellow ALPA pilot....better for USAir to liquidate and for all of us to get in line behind you groveling for a job while you get the routes, upgrades, and $$$ while the rest of us start over? Not to mention the myriad of ALPA contracts, some are good, some are worse than the non-union houses. What about glass houses? It took two BK's for the USAir guys to have a contract worse than AWA.

PCL....then why don't you condone a jumpseat war with SWA and why in the hell did you go to work for AirTran? Because it benefits you and ALPA, thats why. Not to mention, the pilots of APA, SWAPA, and IPA have all done the best post 9/11. Why exactly is that?

Finally, ALPA and unity are like oil and water....they don't mix. The structure is flawed and cannot be fixed. Better to have your own union and worry about yourself......oh, wait a minute....that is what ALPA is anyway.

A350

 

[CopilotDoug]

There is NO WAY an airline the size of Pinnacle, with the amount of turnover they have could ever afford to do what they do on their own.

I'm not arguing your point, just need a little clarification: What is it "they do"?

And anyone who thinks SWA is so great due to their independent union is nuts.

I don't think its greatness is attributable to their Union alone. They're great and they happen to have an independant Union. They have good labor/management relations.

Each airline is different.

 

[CopilotDoug]

Better to have your own union and worry about yourself...

Agreed, A350. It will stop all the "united" ALPA carriers from pointing the finger when one screws over another. The AAA guys voting for USAPA know what they're doing. They've lived it.

Just because it gets in the way of PCL and Rez's plan for unification under one banner (which is quite selfish, mind you) doesn't make it wrong.