letter from retired AAA captain

[TurboAWD]

350-

I don't look down on the AAA pilots for voting in the contracts. We all know what kind of pressure you were under. I just don't think that blaming "ALPA" is logical. And I definitely don't want you groveling behind me for a job. I am a big proponent of "one list" or things that bring us closer to that. On a related note, I tend to lean to DOH integration (with fences, etc)..

USAPA is not going to help the AAA pilots. Moving forward and getting a new contract will.


Funny thing about pilots. The same guys that got hosed by the Bush administration (AAA, AWA, UA in particular) will probably vote for McCain.

Turbo

 

[JoeMerchant]

Here are some more letters.....interesting reading....especially the one from the FedEx pilot.....

http://1.usairlinepilots.org/letters.htm

 

[BoilerUP]

especially the one from the FedEx pilot.....

There are MUCH better, more logical arguments against ALPA out there than anything coming from Bob Lavender.

You might read a few of his multiple manifestos on Airline Pilot Central before giving his myopic, anti-ALPA rants much credibility...he sure doesn't seem to have much from his colleagues.

 

[JoeMerchant]

There are MUCH better, more logical arguments against ALPA out there than anything coming from Bob Lavender.

You might read a few of his multiple manifestos on Airline Pilot Central before giving his myopic, anti-ALPA rants much credibility...he sure doesn't seem to have much from his colleagues.

The interesting part of his letter was the part about DW bringing the CAL MEC Chairman, who was a scab, to PHX to talk the America West pilots out of leaving ALPA....They have not been real happy with ALPA either and ALPA had to bring a scab to try and convince them to stay in ALPA....Just brings another perspective to the debate.....

 

[SaturnPilot]

especially the one from the FedEx pilot.....

The guy who works at the highest paid airline in the US?? The one that came back to ALPA because their own in house union said they would not have been able to get the contract they got without the ALPA resources? Yeah, the FedEx guy...he's got a lot to complain about. I guess ALPA sucks over there!

Wasn't it less than 10 years ago when the AAA guys were the highest paid in the industry also (under ALPA)? How has ALPA changed physically in it's governance between then and now to be rendered "unaffective" and "broken"?

Somebody on this thread is actually wanting to change unions because ONE guy in ALPA, the president, makes a lot of money? Talk about rational thinking...

If USAPA gets put in and 10 years down the road their #1 guy is paid a lot, are you guys going to get involved and try to change that, or are you going to overthrow your union again?

 

[Prog 2/2]

You can say that it is the intent of USAPA to harm another group....IMO, the Nicolau award was the straw that finally broke the camels back.

You're right. Just saying it does not make it so.

So why does reordering the list figure so prominently in all, and I mean all, of USAPA's stated goals and intentions?

If a redo of the list, contract fences, or"bidding restrictions", and a subsequent screwing of the west, is not what USAPA is about, then why not publicly renounce any intention of doing so?

I'll even give you an answer to that one.

They can't, because a complete gutting of Nicolau is the only thing that is driving the USAPA bus.

Circumventing a binding arbitration decision is the only purpose they have.

No AAA pilot, except Bebee and the MEC officers were happy with ALPA after BK1. The stuff that happened under the watchful eyes of ALPA National since 9/11 has sealed their fate.

Once more, what happened after 9/11 also happened under the "watchful eyes" of you and your duly elected reps, as well as ALPA.

You had the vote, you had the power to recall, and you had the ability to charge your MC with the power to negotiate something other than strict DOH.

What occured after 9/11 has more to do with the people you chose to represent you, and the mandate you gave them, than anything that ALPA did, or did not do.

Better to stand up and fight than to go out with a wimper on your knees.....That is what ALPA is all about. Lay YOUR career at the feet of someone else who will benefit for the good of the profession. Mind you, the people who are screaming the most about that have never had to endure anything like the AAA pilots have.

The people doing the most screaming are those that are most in jeopardy of being harmed by your vindictiveness and sense of entitlement.

Truly sorry about the tough breaks you and your colleagues have suffered over the past few years. The industry hasn't been a bed of roses for anybody, though, has it?

So where, then, is it written that you should get to recoup all, or even some of, what you lost at the expense of the west?

It is not incumbent upon any west pilot to make you whole at their expense.

Does the APA, the IPA, and the SWAPA harm the profession? I didn't think so.

You're right. They don't.

But then again, they don't exist just to screw another group of pilots, now do they?

A350

You can wrap yourself in the "ALPA failed us" flag all you want, but what's really going on here is a seat grab, nothing more.

 

[Prog 2/2]

The AAA guys voting for USAPA know what they're doing.

Yep, they sure do.

They're attempting to get around a binding arbitration decision under a USAPA smokescreen.

An arbitration that they willingly submitted to; with a decision issued by an arbitration panel that they helped pick; and after a process that didn't become "flawed" until they didn't get their way.

Yep. They know what they are doing.

And so should the rest of you.

 

[A350]

Prog:

If you say the Nic award cannot be overturned, then why do you care if it is ALPA or USAPA?

ALPA's track record is pattern bargaining, which hasn't done so well post 9/11. It has gotten so bad that regional carriers were getting undercut by mainline carriers to keep their own flying...at least with an independant, you can do what suits you and not worry that your management will replace you with another union pilot represented by the same union you belong to.

BTW, the watchful eye of National was all we had at USAir to keep us from our own MEC and management. That is because ALPA national decided a long time ago that representation on the BOD of the company was something worth going for....and it went a long way helping management cut the head off the pilots union by having "closed" meetings where multiple items like pay, scope, and pensions were decided without the membership even having a vote.

The other unions do harm the profession, according to their biggest cheerleader who is a member of one of the unions he claims is so harmful....


A350

 

[FR8mastr]

Indirectly, yes. For pilots to have the most leverage, they all need to be unified under a single banner.

Now that's funny.

While I agree with you 100% on the one banner thing, ALPA is not it. If they were, they would not sign concessionary poverty wage, BS deals for contract carriers who's sole purpose in life is to undercut their ML partner.
Yea Yea I know its all US air pilots fault, so save it. It's my opinion that this is exactly what a national union is supposed to do. Prevent the whip saw!

 

[PCL_128]

PCL....then why don't you condone a jumpseat war with SWA

Because SWAPA isn't actively trying to screw over the pilots from any other airline. uSAPa is nothing but an attempt to rape the West pilots. That's the organization's entire reason for being. They will claim all sorts of grandiose ideals to justify their existence, but we all know what it's really about: raping the West pilots of the seniority that was awarded them in the Nic decision. That places the uSAPa supporters just half a step above SCABs.