Let's use 400K piano pushers as an example.

[mokitty]

Are you saying your union lied to its membership about the reason for the rally? That is just insane

Yes, that is what I am saying.

Insane, yep. True, yep. Sad that it is true, yep. Question, do you believe and agree with everything told to you by your MEC during this process?

 

[waveflyer]

Red already said it frog-

Unless you were senior enough to upgrade a couple years early (then be stuck on reserve as senior air tran capt's come in over the top) what did FOs at SWA get?

You guys refuse to accept that pilots could get the air tran job with a lot less time and effort and so have a lot of capt's younger than a lot of us- it's not personal, it's demographics-
Relative seniority is ridiculous- doh is terrible bc it throws in the trash all the extra time and effort it takes to get the SWA pilot job-

I figure I lost 2 years of seniority with the deal we got-
Living with it and moving on-

You spout that victim doh relative seniority crap online you will be told off- nobody feels bad for you and the deal you got.

You honestly tout adding an ATL base as a positive for SWA pilots- we already had 9 bases coast to coast- ? That's just a dumb argument to anyone who's ever been to Atlanta. The place ain't that hip man.

So again- what did a JUNIOR SWA FO get out of this deal? Name one positive thing not totally overshadowed by 2/3 of your YOUNG airline coming in over the top of us

I can see your side- and I get that this is a disruption to your life- can you see how this vastly changes things for junior FOs at SWA- you know, the ones who aren't so senior it doesn't affect them and aren't senior enough to get the upgrade-

My life is unimproved- but as more and more air tran guys come in over the top....

 

[Clyde Frog]

You spout that victim doh relative seniority crap online you will be told off

I never spouted anything about relative or doh. My problem is with GK/SWAPA conspiring to deny us our date with an arbitrator thru the use of threats and ultimatums. Having a fair minded individual (or group of individuals as would have been the case) make the decision obviously scared SWAPA and uncle Gary made sure it didn't happen.

My life is unimproved- but as more and more air tran guys come in over the top....

What about when the hundreds that were stapled come over?

You honestly tout adding an ATL base as a positive for SWA pilots- we already had 9 bases coast to coast- ? That's just a dumb argument to anyone who's ever been to Atlanta. The place ain't that hip man.

Then why did it go so senior? It's a 1 leg commute to about anywhere in the US with a lot of frequency on Delta.

So again- what did a JUNIOR SWA FO get out of this deal? Name one positive thing not totally overshadowed by 2/3 of your YOUNG airline coming in over the top of us

They got less than some but what did they expect? Our capts will have 20+ years seniority and are headed to the right seat and your 2 year FOs are mad because they didn't get enough out of the deal. Nice. I sure wish they would have had the opportunity to make their case to an arbitrator.

 

[FlyinGuy]

The sad part is that you denied yourself the chance at arbitration and you continue to blame everyone else. All you had to do was vote down SL 10 and run out the clock. You chose to vote yes and now it is everyone else's fault?

I know, I know. Big bad Mr Kelly threatened you.

 

[Clyde Frog]

The threats were nothing more than a negotiating tactic. How would you know how I voted anyway?

 

[redflyer65]

The threats were nothing more than a negotiating tactic. How would you know how I voted anyway?

I don't really care how you voted. The results were overwhelming, and now it's time to move on.


Or not, your choice.

 

[madjack]

"My problem is with GK/SWAPA conspiring to deny us our date with an arbitrator thru the use of threats and ultimatums."

Ok, so you wanted arbitration, why? I am guessing ALPA advised that you would keep seats and more seniority if you went to arbitration. Why not ask Mr Kelly why he just didn't punt the whole process to a neutral arbitrator?

 

[Clyde Frog]

"
Ok, so you wanted arbitration, why? I am guessing ALPA advised that you would keep seats and more seniority if you went to arbitration.

ALPA was very noncommittal regarding expectations other than to use past arbitrations as possible scenarios. None of which included a 20 yr capt losing his seat to an 8-9 yr FO.

 

[redflyer65]

Deleted..

 

[SIG600]

Animal Farm anyone? If you like to fly this is still an OK job that puts you in the upper 10% of all wage earners in the US

Oh, well then. How about we all just accept the status quo and quit trying to further the profession? Why don't you go find a quiet corner to retire in and stop trying to undercut, everyone else and stand on the bar? Rhetorical question, you've accepted such low wages for a career you can't retire.

 

[madjack]

"None of which included a 20 yr capt losing his seat to an 8-9 yr FO"

You left out the fact he will upgrade in 2015 and make more money flying airplanes than he ever imagined...he will be in the top 20% percent of a seven thousand pilot list, holding any base in our system, with weekends off, and picking up when he wants...yeah they don't talk about that scenario much do they? Why, because the career windfall that those senior FAT pilots will receive is unprecedented...your twisted entitled view is so out to lunch that if it wasn't so pathetic it would be laughable...your CPs barely make SWA FO pay....many of our FOs make more $$...

 

[maxblast72]

Four neutral NMB arbitrators opined during Q2 2012 that the merger of Southwest Airlines and AirTran Airways was not a merger of equals. I am not sure how that guarantees that the AirTran pilots worst case in arbitration would have been DOH.

The ALPA lawyers wanted the AirTran pilots to vote on SIA #1 after being educated on how the MC arrived at SIA #1. The ATL LEC Chair intentionally misled the pilot group prior to their Aug 18th no vote which allowed the "no" crowd to gain momentum. Once the truth surfaced after the MEC shootdown, the ATL pilots recalled the ATL LEC Chair (as well as the other 2 ATL MEC reps who voted no).

 

[Clyde Frog]

Is any of that guaranteed? No, it isn't. I'll say this though, if SW could somehow guarantee current compensation for the remainder of my career, then I'd be willing to discuss trading some seniority for it. Obviously, that's impossible. Contracts have a 100% chance of changing. Seniority, not so much.

make more money flying airplanes than he ever imagined...he will be in the top 20% percent of a seven thousand pilot list, holding any base in our system, with weekends off, and picking up when he wants

Yeah, he'll go from $186/hr to $216/hr. It's more, but it sure as hell isn't a life changing amount of money. Lets not over exaggerate here. BTW he already holds weekends, whatever base he wants and picks up all the premium pay he wants.

The only entitlement attitude I see is that SW seems to feel "entitled" to AT seniority.

 

[PCL_128]

The ALPA lawyers wanted the AirTran pilots to vote on SIA #1 after being educated on how the MC arrived at SIA #1.

That's a lie and you know it.

 

[Just thinking]

'You left out the fact he will upgrade in 2015'...................

Your flattish growth will ensure that those uber senior former FAT Captains will be in the right seat for several years. They will have upgraded over 800 RSW FO's into those seats this year and next. They do not have the delivery schedule to warrant those number of upgrades. They do not have the number of retirements to warrant those numbers of upgrades. It is a seat steal that was orchestrated by GK and SWAPA. Of course they will be on reserve for the next 5-8 years at a minimum. Your most junior pilot on the RSW list (as of 9/26/2010) now has how many pilots beneath them from the FAT side of the list?

"You guys refuse to accept that pilots could get the air tran job with a lot less time and effort"...............

You make it sound like every RSW pilot is God's gift to aviation. You seem to forget that everybody out there knows someone at SW that is a really great guy. They also know someone who is a complete tool and they are totally dumbfounded as to how in the world that person ever got hired at SW.
Was this your interview prep for SW?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-DIETlxquzY