Let's Start an Airline-Hypothetically

[Publishers]

funding

Without knowing the funding, it is hard to come up with the aircraft plan. Why?

Look at the history books. Many of our competitive carriers started when there were cheap aircraft available. Those that did not came from deals with aircraft manufacturers. Such an example would be Jetblue who put together a sweetheart package for the Airbuses.

If we really want to legitimately start an operation, we need to look at the desert and see what is out there. If there are a bunch of idol 737-300's, then we need to look at those.

Perhaps what we need to see is how much our "investors" have to put up. Is it unlimited or is there some cap?

 

[TurboS7]

Shoot, you guys work slow. I figured that with 4 pages you at least had one or two airplanes operational. Obviously I havn't taken the time to read the post.

 

[Publishers]

point

757 may or may not be the aircraft, the question is can you afford them. That was my original question. Are they available at a reasonable cost in the number you need. Have they been on a maintenance program compatible with yours. Do you even have one. What does the manuals say we have.?

 

[Skyboss]

Run head to head with SWA in the West using 717's which can be picked up for about $22 million with 80 seats. Call it a no frills Midwest Express.

Any takers....Call it the new PSA....

Use ERJ-135's with 19 business class seats for regional service. The margins are high enough to support such and operation. Already have the numbers. Code share with DL, NWAC and CO to sell first class connection seats at LAX. Average fare for OO and AE out of LAX is about $79 a seat each way. This kind of config would cost about $39 each way for the airline with 10-15% profit margin.

As for the 717. Due to the short hops, your margin would be 7-9% using SWA's fare structure. Of course, you could charge a $5 premium for the space and comfort giving you a 10-15% margin, but no one really cares about comfort anymore do they.... Yeah right.

Biggest savings come from a new staff resulting in lower wages, better fuel consumption, and high aircraft utilization. Of course you could use CRJs in a 40 seat config with better leg room, but the costs are a smidgen higher for regional ops.

Oh yeah, and the stews.... Short Skirts and Go Go Boots.

 

[TurboS7]

Let me know when you want 737-800 numbers, I can give you all of those for free.

 

[Astra Guy]

Good points, all. Short skirts and go-go boots, it is then. Startup money, after conferring with the founders, is $10B cash. If necessary the founders could come up with $15B if they mortgaged their homes....is this enough?

Let's go to the desert. 757 seems like the mainline airplane. If we opt to have short haul regionals they will be internalized and part of the mainline. Simple flow through precept. 717s are great airplanes and comfortable...2X2 seating thoughout, conceptually. Any comments about this?

Nothing in our model is no frills. First class treatment, real food, and real deals for our customers. Business class should occupy ~20% of the airplane's available space.

 

[SDF2BUF2MCO]

Suggestion

Astra, from a customer marketing viewpoint, I suggest you consider going with the gee whiz stuff like JB has. In addition, to sell food on the airplane. I don't know how well it is working, but some of the airlines are doing it. Think if an arrangement with Subway and Pizza Hut could be made you'd be able to sell some stuff. Would offer this on flights over 1 1/2 hours (??). Being presumptuous this is doable.
The thing I've noticed in my travels is that the general public is bored with flying. The entertainment stuff and food keep people "happy" and preoccupied. I get a window seat and a book or magazine and look out the window the majority of the time but this is not the norm for most of the travelling public.
Over the holidays we flew a CO 767-400 that had entertainment stuff on it. My kids loved it. To my understanding JB has more bells and whistles (?). The kids could care less about the view from top.
Hey Bobby, make sure you hire good looking women for stewardesses er flight attendants. Great for morale bad for morals though. You can always (most of the time) teach them how to be good flight attendants but you can't teach'em to be good looking !

 

[Publishers]

founders

I just want to meet the founders if they can morgage their homes and dig up another $5.0B.

the amounts mentioned would be much greater than any airline known to man but that is OK.

We do have to realize that with that much startup money, there are three thousand better things to do with it than start some stupid airline. We could start an airline with one months interest.

 

[Astra Guy]

SD,

Good points...it looks like we will be able to put a few bells and whistles in. Keeping the customers occupied sure makes a huge difference in their overall experience.

Publishers,

Well, I am not telling who they are! LOL I like the treatment I am getting from them, by myself! No doubt that these folks could do better investing their bucks in something else. It is the principle of the poor treatment by them and theirs that makes it worth their vendetta.

All of this being said as we work through the model we should be realistic about how much we really need to get this thing going and be successful. These folks might want to invest in something else with the excess or give more money away.

 

[bobbysamd]

Hiring

Hey Bobby, make sure you hire good looking women for stewardesses er flight attendants. Great for morale bad for morals though. You can always (most of the time) teach them how to be good flight attendants but you can't teach'em to be good looking . . .

FA hiring is not in any of my departments, which are Training, Legal or Media Relations! I'll pass your suggestion on to the boss.

I'm waiting to get the go-ahead for hiring in my Training Department. But, first, I have to (1) get current and (2) get typed so I can properly teach ground school and sim. I do expect the company to train me on its nickel. No P-F-T here.

Speaking of hiring, I would propose a concept completely foreign to aviation hiring. That we consider applicants for all positions strictly on the basis of their qualifications. In other words, LORs, inside-company recommendations and references from lodge brothers and neighbors who know the Chief Pilot's brother's cousin will carry no weight whatsoever. Truly egalitarian hiring. Every applicant gets a fair shake. No 300-hour wonders, a la United, either.

Comments, Mr. Astra Guy?

 

[TonyC]

Re: Hiring

FA hiring is not in any of my departments, which are Training, Legal or Media Relations! I'll pass your suggestion on to the boss.

If you let the SIC Captain serve the pizza and beer, you won't need FAs.

Truly egalitarian hiring.

And pay 'em all the same, too.

Sell Superior Safety to the masses? "Our FA's are qualified to land the plane, too!"

Send that to the Marketing Department (who are all type-rated, by the way, and also get paid the same).

 

[Astra Guy]

bobbysamd,

I'm with you on the hiring business. No good old boy system here. That method always seemed ludicrous to me. A friend of a friend of a friend actually leads to, more oftentimes than not, watered down skills. Qualifications and test results, tempered with objective HR interviews leads to hiring the best available folks.

 

[Astra Guy]

Turbo,

Sure, we would love to have those. I think we can gleen the 757 numbers for free, as well. I think that it will really boil down to these two aircraft.

Someone mentioned engine and avionics insurance programs. My experience has been that we would be much better off to pay by the hour rather than living with the lack of support when something breaks. It also allows one to budget in advance with some level of accuracy.

Thanks Turbo.

 

[bobbysamd]

More pilot hiring and recruiting thoughts, and straight talk about the pilot shortage

Qualifications and test results, tempered with objective HR interviews leads to hiring the best available folks.

And our pilot recruiters will not attend any Kit Darby seminars, either.

Eventually, we would advertise for our flight academy. But, since we and not our students would pay for training, we would not have to trot out pilot shortage to hook them. We can be completely honest and candid about our program and tell them there is no pilot shortage, but can look them straight in the eye about guaranteeing them a job upon completion of our training because they will be our employees upon acceptance to our school!

I'd still run glossy ads in pilot magazines for a time, but once word gets out that we are completely straightforward and honest about careers with our company we will have no shortage of applicants and will not need to advertise. An unfortunate downside to our honest approach toward pilot opportunities and the pilot un-shortage is that Comair, etc. will have to step-up its high-pressure sales tactics to keep its school in business.

 

[Astra Guy]

Your points are well taken. There would not be a shortage once our procedures become more common knowledge.

I believe a mentoring system could be put in place whereby each new hire would be assigned a senior associate as a mentor. The ideal situation would allow for a face to face meeting with their mentor and from that point forward the two could communicate via email or telephonically.

I have learned in managing people that once you make it clear that you want them to succeed and they can count on some form of help along the way, that they become a more valuable asset. Mentoring from a position of experience and knowledge can go a long way in getting the best out of a person. The new hire will not want to let himself, his mentor or his company down.

Too often folks nowadays are asking what have you done for me lately when thinking about their company. With the right attitude from the people management side that individual would ask what can I do to help the company to be a viable, profitable, mutually beneficial and pleasant place to work. It is all about empowerment and trust.