Let's Start an Airline-Hypothetically

[enigma]

I don't think that the majors are going out of business because they can't schedule pilots to everyone's satisfaction.

Of course not, and thats a point that I was trying to make on a previous thread. Airlines go down because of factors like fuel costs, overexpansion, accidents, etc. Overpriced, underworked labor is a symptom of poor management. Managers who are focused in on squeezing the last ounce out of a pilot are ignoring other more important aspects of the business. I think of it as the, stumble over a dollar to pick up a penny, syndrom.

regards,
enigma

 

[Dragonbravo]

We need more details to really get into this. Some great questions have been brought up. What type of operation? What bases? What cities are we planning on serving? Astra, you need to start giving more info. Are you sure you aren't don't this for Kapps?

 

[TonyC]

There are a number of private investors that want to start an airline. They want to be the leader in customer service and consistent high levels of performance and reliability. They are in the exploraty stage of building this airline. Because they know that their ultimate success will be dependent upon hiring highly qualified and motivated employees, they are willing to permit six members of the 11 member board of directors to come from their workforce. Members of the board will serve no longer than two years.

The investors will guarantee funding for the purchase of airplanes, support equipment, gates, etc., to keep the airline afloat for the first five years.

From their market analysis they have determined that a 200 passenger airplane capable of flying coast to coast might be their best option but they are open to suggestions.

The investors are adament about keeping their workforce non-union and are willing to pay above median scale to accomplish this.

Due to your airline experience and apparent business knowledge from testing they want you to join their team. Your input will help establish pay rates, upgrade times, work rules, benefits etc., as a minimum but they are also looking for input in all areas of their operation.

Hiring mins are expected to be high due to their idea that their ideal crew would be headed by two Captains, alternating crew days in the PIC/SIC position. That being said they will start with highly experienced Captains and FOs. Upgrade times are expected to take two years from FO to Captain. Having two captains on board will be used, along with high levels of customer service, to seperate themselves from their competition.

Anyone interested?

Since so many of the parameters have already been fixed, we'll just have to run with them.

HIRING MINS: 4000 TT, 2500 JT - - Type rating in company aircraft required. Interviews will only be given to personal acquaintances of memberes of the board.

Other personnel (Handlers, Mechanics, Gate Agents, Ticket Agents, etc.) All positions will be filled by pilots with the above min quals. See scheduling below.

Scheduling: Pilots will bid on lines that consist of flying trips, serving as CSA, ticket agent, gate agent, and other ground support personnel. Only when all of these positions are manned by pilots will the company benefit from a unified thought process, whereby everyone appreciates the role of all the other players. A typical line would consist of 3 days flying, 3 days as a Gate Agent, 3 to 4 days as a Ramp rat/baggage handler, and 3/4 days in other support functions.

CAPT of the Day: When two Captains are assigned to the same leg, they each will be given the opportunity to speak from the podium to all ticketed passengers for that leg. After a maximum of 1 minute speech from each, passengers will indicate by raising their valid boarding passes which of the two captains will act as PIC for the leg. In the event of a tie, the Gate Agent (who is also a Captain) will choose one of the two who will then be removed from the flight to continue serving his day as the New Gate Agent - - the old gate agent will then assume PIC duties for the leg. In the event that such an occurence leaves either or both Captains away from their intended overnight, both, or either, will receive a First Class ticket and a free day of travel to return to his intended RON location. 200% pay premium will be paid for this disruption.

All Captains will receive 2 months of paid vacation the first year, and will accrue an additional 1 week of vacation for each year thereafter. Pilots electing to forfeit 1 day of vacation to serve in a support duty (CSA, Gate agent, handler, etc.) will be credited an additional month of vacation. Any Captains who forfeit 10 days in one year to serve in a support function will then be entitled to 12 months vacation each year, hence retirement plans will be unneccessary.

RETIREMENT: Captains electing to take all vacation due must work 15 years before being eligible for full retirement at 135% of 12 times the highest monthly salary ever recieved. Highest monthly salary ever recieved includes any month the Captain was ever employed by any airline at any time. (EX: Captain was paid $23,000 during one month at airline X - - retirement would be 12 x 23,000 x 1.35 = $372,600) Captains who elect to retire earlier than 15 years will incur no penalty for early retirement.

In addition to regular vacation, each pilot will receive the month of his birthday off as extra vacation. Pilots who choose to work during the month of their birthday (or Christmas, or New Years, or Valentine's Day, or St. Patricks Day, or Mothers Day, or Independence Day, or Labor Day, or Memorial Day, or Father's Day, or Halloween, or Thanksgiving, or Grandparent's Day, or Secretary's Day) will be compensated at 150% of their normal pay rate.

COMMUTING:
Pilots will be paid per diem at $50/hr and be given First Class deadhead tickets from their home of record to their domicile in addition to one day's regular pay in ordeer to travel to domicile prior to beginning a trip. If the scheduled or actual block hours of that deadhead trip exceed 1 hour 30 minutes, the pilot will receive a day of rest and a paid hotel room (4 star or better) paid at 150% normal rate. Upon completion of a trip, Captains will receive a day of rest and a paid hotel room at 150% normal pay rate, and a First Class deadhead ticket to home of record. Again, perdiem will be paid at the rate of $50/hr.

TRAINING:
NA - - All Captains must be trained prior to hire, and will remain proficient by flying the line.

SCOPE:
The Company promises not to hire anybody to do the job cheaper than the pilots on the Master Seniority List. Pilots that demonstrate superior airmanship, personality, and nose-rubbing skills will be offered first choice in bidding assignments. Seniority determines nothing - - only your ability to get along with the cheief pilot.

Hub-and-Spoke vs. Point-to-point:
Will be decided on an as-needed basis for each leg. Captians (PIC, SIC, Gate Agent, CSA, baggage handler, and tug driver) will conference before each revenue leg and determine whether the leg should flow into a hub-and-spoke arrangement, or simply be point-to-point - - Gate Agent will call ahead after block-out to the destination station to advise which system the flight will feed into. Destination station will then call in Reserve Captains - - oh, wait - - we won't have reserves in this airline - - never mind. OK, if it doesn't work out at the Destination station, the Gate Agent will advise all the passengers waiting in the gate area that they will be reticketed on another airtline in First Class with triple frequent flier miles.

Workrules can be renegotiated as often as desired by the pilots, but they can never be detrimental to the pilots. Any change must result in an incremental increase in hourly rates, retirement benefits, and uniform allowances.

And, speaking of uniforms.

All Captain must wear a full uniform - - dark slacks, white shirt with epaulets, 4 gold bars, a dark tie, and of course the dark blouse. Hats are mandatory. Shirts only come in Size 16½/33 - - pilots must fit the shirt to be hired.

OK, I might have missed some details, but that just about covers the important stuff, right?

 

[enigma]

Tony, man your TOUGH. LOL

cheers,
enigma

 

[Astra Guy]

I have a few minutes here. As for the workforce the founders believe that all should be internal and not contracted. It builds for better cohesion. As for the aircraft the idea is one type of airplane that will seat 200 folks and go coast to coast. There should be a small business class with upgrades similar to what AirTran has in place. Enigma brings up a good point about commutes. 4 on and 5 off sounds like a good mix considering the possible commute. Our goal here is to determine the airframe, for one. As for the bases what about LGA, Baltimore...ID escapes me, MIA, ORD, ATL, DFW, LAX, SFO and SEA? This would allow for some business activity as well as vacationers.

As for compensation for employee board members it amounts to a six year contract for them, two on the board, the first year in developing the system, the second year after kickoff and four flying the line. Compensation at the highest level for a line pilot while on the board should be equitable. Remember the board members aren't investing any of their own money...they are helping to build the model and determine the infrastructure to make this airline profitable for investors as well as employees.

Lots of good questions posted here. I knew the airline guys would chip in and their experiences help mold a reasonable model.

 

[TonyC]

Tony, man your TOUGH. LOL

cheers,
enigma

My kids say that, too.

I've been rethinking the whole thing, and you might be right.

Hats should only be mandatory when operating as the PIC. That way, the customers can more readily identify the guy what's in charge.

 

[enigma]

It seems that I didn't make myself perfectly clear. I didn't mention the number of days a pilot should work in between blocks of days off. Some of you seem to have perceived that I was proposing 4 on, 5 off. Not true, I would be happy working 5 on, five off, or even 6on, 5 off, 5 on, 5 off, and so on.

As long as working days are limited to no more than 18 days (calender days) a month, and I get day off blocks long enough to get stuff done at home, I'll be happy.

regards,
enigma

 

[bart]

Hats should only be mandatory when operating as the PIC. That way, the customers can more readily identify the guy what's in charge.

What happens if the gate agent has to break a PIC election tie and left his hat at home? Can he borrow the tug drivers or would he have to give up the slot to the baggage handler?

 

[Astra Guy]

Enigma,

I (we) appreciate your input. We will surely take what you say and weigh it appropriately.

Regardless of some other nay sayers I think that if we go through the process and cover every aspect that management and employees need to deal with that everyone might learn something. If nothing else then a few of us will get more educated and have a better understanding of what you folks deal with daily.

I know you said you weren't interested in being involved but we would like to have your input as we go along...much as you have given so far.

Ron

 

[Publishers]

Geez

Geez guys, I want to be pilot friendly too.

The problem is that the people that say you have 5 years probably will not give it to you if they start seeing a good deal of red ink they had not counted on.

One reasons that pilot started airlines fail is that they think exactly like you guys have been talking about.

When I was in the aircraft leasing business, the one thing we did not want to hear when someone approached us about leasing an aircraft was that it was a new carrier started by pilots. It was the kiss of death to getting the aircraft. Same thing when we were doing an airline certification program, pilot groups were to pay everything in advance.

Enigma wants his time off and good for him. As an airline executive, my hours were at the 60 plus a week level and I traveled about 250,000 miles a year. My wife divorced me because she never saw me. I* would have loved one of these 5 on 5 off deals.

One of the things that gets me in these boards is all the griping about duty time and workload. The pilots that I play golf with are always laughing about how little they are required to do.

One reserve pilot I know went nuts because they called him for a flight the night he had a party scheduled. It was the only time in the whole month he had to fly at all.