Let's Start an Airline-Hypothetically

[Astra Guy]

There are a number of private investors that want to start an airline. They want to be the leader in customer service and consistent high levels of performance and reliability. They are in the exploraty stage of building this airline. Because they know that their ultimate success will be dependent upon hiring highly qualified and motivated employees, they are willing to permit six members of the 11 member board of directors to come from their workforce. Members of the board will serve no longer than two years.

The investors will guarantee funding for the purchase of airplanes, support equipment, gates, etc., to keep the airline afloat for the first five years.

From their market analysis they have determined that a 200 passenger airplane capable of flying coast to coast might be their best option but they are open to suggestions.

The investors are adament about keeping their workforce non-union and are willing to pay above median scale to accomplish this.

Due to your airline experience and apparent business knowledge from testing they want you to join their team. Your input will help establish pay rates, upgrade times, work rules, benefits etc., as a minimum but they are also looking for input in all areas of their operation.

Hiring mins are expected to be high due to their idea that their ideal crew would be headed by two Captains, alternating crew days in the PIC/SIC position. That being said they will start with highly experienced Captains and FOs. Upgrade times are expected to take two years from FO to Captain. Having two captains on board will be used, along with high levels of customer service, to seperate themselves from their competition.

Anyone interested?

 

[Dragonbravo]

We currently have reserve Captains that act a FO's if needed. I would recomend not starting out that way. You need an Capt and FO. not Capt and Capt. This way it is clear who is the PIC of the aircraft. Furthermore, each crew member has flows in acrodance with there duties. If you are a Capt. one day and an FO the next. You will start to get the flows messed up. I've seen it happen. And when it happens things start getting missed and it becomes a safety issue.

 

[Astra Guy]

I have authorized by the owners to put you on the board. First come first served is the way they see it.

Point taken about the crew assignments/duties. Let's see what other posters have to say. All matters affecting crews will be left to the crewmembers on this board.

How about that for an immediate promotion?

 

[Dash8]

even without an official 'union' persay i'd still say you need to have some form of a CBA, there has to be a framework to draw off of that everyone can agree too

while the ca/ca theory might be good in practice I can see where it may have it's shortfalls, plus what manner of route structure would be involved? hub/spoke, point to point, some amalgimation of the two? many many questions need to be addressed in a startup particularly in the oversaturated airline market....

 

[Astra Guy]

dash8,

The method of arbitration framework is left for the employee members to determine. Employees will be evaluating employees. The founders have determined this is in the best interests of all concerned.

The founders are leaning towards a point to point system vs a hub network but are open to ideas.

Remember the members are here to determine what is best for the company and their employees while keeping the customer service and safety bar high.

If you are willing to join the board to help determine the companies direction I have been given the authority to accept you as our second member.

BTW all board members are given a contract for six years at the compensation rate for the senior level of their position. Their board member tenure can last for only two years from startup.

 

[Astra Guy]

Shadow,

I will let our members determine what those should be. The only preference from the founders is that they want highly qualified pilots and for the new hires that are brought in for them to be able to upgrade within two years. All pilots are guaranteed a type rating within that time period. This will afford them the ability to use this as a marketing tool as well as keeping the safety bar high.

Are you interested in becoming a board member?

 

[bart]

I respectfully decline the offer. One does not have to look far down the tracks to see the train wreck that your airline will be within five years. As a financial manager, I encourage all the investors to take their money and run quickly. Your average expected return on investment in this business historically is something less than zero.

 

[Astra Guy]

Bart,

I respect your position. The investors are determined to make this work and they are relying on their employees experience to help shape this business.

 

[Astra Guy]

Shadow,

Ok, you are in. Welcome aboard. We have three remaining positions left on this board.

BTW my role in this is to act as a moderator and not as a voting member of the board. I may throw some ideas out from time to time but the board will have the ultimate decision making responsibility.

 

[Astra Guy]

I have to go do my real job for a while so I will leave dragonbravo in charge of accepting new board members in my absence. Feel free to kick around some ideas that may come to you.

 

[350DRIVER]

Hiring mins are expected to be high due to their idea that their ideal crew would be headed by two Captains, alternating crew days in the PIC/SIC position. That being said they will start with highly experienced Captains and FOs. Upgrade times are expected to take two years from FO to Captain. Having two captains on board will be used, along with high levels of customer service, to seperate themselves from their competition.

ROFLAO ! - I love it...


3 5 0

 

[Dragonbravo]

Thanks a lot astra.

 

[enigma]

The investors are adament about keeping their workforce non-union and are willing to pay above median scale to accomplish this.

Due to your airline experience and apparent business knowledge from testing they want you to join their team. Your input will help establish pay rates, upgrade times, work rules, benefits etc., as a minimum but they are also looking for input in all areas of their operation.

I don't do fantasy football, fantasy NASCAR, nor airlines and I'm not about to start.

So I'll just give this for free. If you want to keep the unions away, remember that quality of life means more than money. If you develop a system of work rules that guarantees X number of days off (I suggest a minimum of 13), and guarantees a minimun number of days off in a row ( I suggest that you attempt to schedule days off in blocks of five, but never lower than four), you will be well on the way to having a happy productive work force.

I would stay away from the daily rotating Captain concept. It might work if you rotated months, but not days. Additionally, your training/checking costs would go up by about 25%,and I doubt that your CFO would approve.

good luck,
enigma

 

[Astra Guy]

Enigma,

I appreciate your suggestions. I am sure that you have brought up some valid points.

My idea for starting this little exercise is, for all those that are interested, to have a way to bring up their individual ideas concerning all aspects of a startup airline. There might be some ideas that might help someone in your business.

There surely is no obligation required from anyone to join in or follow this thread. And I would say that if there is some input that I would just ask that people be respectful of the ideas proposed.

If this thread does not reflect any interest then it will die a natural death. It won't hurt my feelings.

Fly Safely!

 

[Dragonbravo]

Astra,

So where is this "airline" going to be located at? What type fleet are you anticipating. It should be a common as possible. And does this have anything to do with Dr. Robbert Kapps at Southern Illinois University?

 

[starchkr]

I think schedules should be something like 4 on 7 off... you would have them lined up to the moon for that. Salary and not hourly, except for extra day pay if you feel like picking up more days. Based in the northwest.... because of the better scenery. Maybe some south pacific flights thrown in for fun.

 

[enigma]

What about 4 on, 4 consecutive off?

4 on, 4 off is ok, but remember, you're trying to build an airline that will keep the unions away. 4 on, 4 off schedules are acceptable for those who live in base, but stink for commuters. For commuters, five day off stretches increase your home time by around 30% compared with 4-4. That's a significant factor in QOL. Before anyone chimes in with some drivel about it being a pilots choice to commute, please remember that bases are not stable. Even when a pilot intends to move to his base, sometimes that base changes and your in-base pilot becomes a commuter. Especially in a growing company.

regards,
enigma

 

[Publishers]

Nice

While all this pilot talk is nice for the airline, I am more interested the Rate of return on assets and investment.

If I am elected to the board, very little of my time is going to be invested in pilot programs. Much mor e will go into what we can produce if we are successful in producing an air mile at a decent buck.

If we cannot discertain what is to be gained if we operate effectively, then what super considerate program we have for oour employes is not much of a consideration.

 

[starchkr]

Publishers...


all that stuff is nice and all, but our job (as stated in the original post) was to create a pilot friendly environment, it had nothing to do with making money. Remember, we have already been guaranteed 5 years of operation. Lets act like the other airlines and work for 4 and a half years and then scramble to try to stay alive 6 months further down the road. Sounds fun to me.


Now if we were asked to be investors then i would go your route.

 

[bart]

Seems that key considerations, like what markets to serve, how to attract customers, negotiating fuel contracts, gates, ground support equipment, and all the personnel to run it need discussing and planning too.

I don't think that the majors are going out of business because they can't schedule pilots to everyone's satisfaction.