Legacy Bashfest - Bring it on!

[bigD]

LOL...this is priceless.

Seriously ERJ-140, do your parents know you're posting here all day? Don't you have chores to do or something?

 

[Dangerkitty]

Besides, did I say the interview offer was via PM?

uhhhhhhhh yeah. Just read a few lines down. These are in your own words.

Ha ha ha! My pm list is 10:1 against you wankers. Everyone is saying "keep it up" or "screw those clueless idiots on flightinfo". I actually got an interview out of this thread! Ha ha ha!


FalconCapt is a loser. Still can't disprove 320 nm range at 390 with 8 pax and ifr reserve!


Haha ha ha! Ban imminent! Ha yha ha ha!


Losers and idiots all. Live in your fantasy world. I'm gone. Cya!!!



Legacy rulz. Peace.

 

[Dangerkitty]

Stick it in your pitot tube, pal. You are a whiny, unprofessional, incompetent jerk. Talk to yourself in the mirror. I'm done with you.

Well ERJ-140, 2 Major Airlines, 1 very large regional airline, 1 nationwide on demand Part 135 jet charter operator, and 2 large Part 91 Corporate flight departments seem to disagree with your above statement since they all hired me to be a professional pilot for them.

By the way, what sorry flight department has hired you? For all we know you are a 15 year old pimple faced punk that is on summer break from school who has waaaaaaaaaaaaaay too much times on his hands.

 

[Lead Sled]

Then let's put this phrase another way. I have thought of every conceivable way to phrase what I am talking about. How about, "Pulling a cell out of clutter" instead? Does that help?

I understand what you're saying, I just disagree with that technique.

Leaving an EMB radar in AUTO gain will provide you at times with a lot of useless information. You absolutely MUST use the GAIN control with this radar (in addition to tilt angle variations) or you will find yourself (as clearly some have) in the middle of some very bad stuff.

What about the guys who take it out of AUTO and fly into "very bad stuff" with the gain turned down because they forgot to put it back to "AUTO", "NORM", or "PRESET" in the heat of battle?

Ground Clutter is ground clutter. A cell is a cell. If you are painting ground clutter then you need to adjust the tilt so that the very edge of the radar screen is showing a slight bit of ground clutter. By this technique you know what the radar's zero tilt is at. You can adjust your tilt accordingly to scan for cells above or below you. Gain has nothing to do with it...

Absolutely correct. Under most circumstances, the safest (and easiest) way to pickout ground clutter from a return is simply the proper usage of tilt.

Now for a slight change in topic...

A significant percentage of bizjets, in addition to wx radar, also have some form of spherics detection equipment (Stormscopes). Radar is basically a "raindrop detector" and the Stormscopes sense the electrical charges associated with air movement. I've flown aircraft with the Radar/Stormscope combination for nearly 20 years now and I would find it hard to go back to having just radar alone.

In very simple terms, the Stormscope is used to decide what to circumnavigate and the radar is used to do the actual circumnavigation. I guess that if I had to chose between one system or the other, it would still be radar. However, the two systems are complimentary and together make it easy to provide your passengers with a safe and smooth ride. The very best combination that I ever used was in a Learjet - it had a vertical profile radar and a stormscope. That combination made interpreting what you saw on the radar display simple. (BTW, VP Radar only uses "tilt" to show the difference between ground clutter and precipitation.) Also, having both systems provides you with some redundancy.

ERJ-140, I'd suggest you attend one of Gwinn's or Trammel's courses. It will help clear things up for you.

'Sled

 

[Lead Sled]

I will have to check out Dave Gwinn. Is there any videotaped presentations that one can receive?

I think so. Check out www.davegwinn.com

'Sled

 

[Dangerkitty]

I've flown aircraft with the Radar/Stormscope combination for nearly 20 years now and I would find it hard to go back to having just radar alone.

I agree 100%. Just started doing that in a Lear 60 about 6 months ago. The stormscope really compliments the radar very very nicely. I had heard about it a while back and now that I have used them in conjuntion together I really like the setup.

 

[Dangerkitty]

Sled, very nice site indeed.

Hey Red-Headed Step Child go to www.davegwinn.com Right when you click on a link you will see a picture of a radar. In the 11 o'clock position there is a radar shadow behind a heavy cell. Plane as day.

Why don't you check the site out and try to learn something. I guess it is hard simulating precip and radar shadows on Microsoft's Flight Simulator.

 

[Dangerkitty]

Yes it does, "moron". The Gain reduces or increases the sensitivity of what is displayed. You don't even have to "Paint" ground clutter. You can just "paint" "white noise" and see precip with that. If you have rain in front of it you'll see black behind it.

Besides your definition of what gain is (by the way ERJ-140 everyone here knows what gain does) that statement makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

Can someone please interpret the above? I am at a loss as to what WSCoDdriver is talking about. He might as well be speaking gibberish.

 

[bigD]

Can someone please interpret the above? I am at a loss as to what WSCoDdriver is talking about. He might as well be speaking gibberish.

Excuse me. I speak jive.

Translated: "I figured out a slick way to properly use the radar without having to first set the tilt to paint ground clutter on the edge of the screen, but then XP blue screened on me and I had to reboot."

 

[ERJ-140]

I understand what you're saying, I just disagree with that technique.

Thanks tremendously for that. I am glad someone sees what I am trying to say here.

What about the guys who take it out of AUTO and fly into "very bad stuff" with the gain turned down because they forgot to put it back to "AUTO", "NORM", or "PRESET" in the heat of battle?

Well, that's kind of like the guys who forget the speed brakes are out until they push up the thrust levers. The best solution is to leave your hand up there until you return the switch to "AUTO". Basically that is what I do. I manipulate the gain and if I have to move my hand off of the switch I first put it back to auto (excepting the unusual circumstance where what I am seeing in MAN gives me a better picture of what is happening).

Absolutely correct. Under most circumstances, the safest (and easiest) way to pickout ground clutter from a return is simply the proper usage of tilt.

The only problem I see is that the EMB radar paints so much ground clutter that tilt alone doesn't always seem to work.

Now for a slight change in topic...

A significant percentage of bizjets, in addition to wx radar, also have some form of spherics detection equipment (Stormscopes). Radar is basically a "raindrop detector" and the Stormscopes sense the electrical charges associated with air movement. I've flown aircraft with the Radar/Stormscope combination for nearly 20 years now and I would find it hard to go back to having just radar alone.


...

VP Radar only uses "tilt" to show the difference between ground clutter and precipitation.) Also, having both systems provides you with some redundancy.

The 880 comes with a lighting strike detection system (they call it a PSP or something like that) and, though I have never seen their version of it, am certain it would be a tremendous asset.

ERJ-140, I'd suggest you attend one of Gwinn's or Trammel's courses. It will help clear things up for you.

'Sled

I would be very interested in either. Would you suggest one over the other or one first then the other? Gwinn's sounds like the one to take. Where do you find out how to attend one?

 

[ERJ-140]

Sled, very nice site indeed.

www.davegwinn.com Right when you click on a link you will see a picture of a radar. In the 11 o'clock position there is a radar shadow behind a heavy cell. Plane as day..

Duh. That's what the radar presentation on the ERJ/Leagcy looks like with a shadow in RCT mode.

 

[ERJ-140]

I just dug up some old ERJ photos I took of our radar on the MFD. They show some cells with painted clutter in the background behind. By varying the gain you can mainuplate what you see to the point that the rain cells stay but the "noise" goes away. I'll post them if I can figure out how and then you guys can bash away all you want.

 

[bigD]

ERJ-140 - I can post them if you wish. Just PM me and I'll give you my e-mail address.

 

[ERJ-140]

Thanks D. Let me see what I can do here first.



Stupid things shrank so I will try editing and uploading them larger.

 

[bigD]

Oh, you figured it out!

 

[ERJ-140]

Oh, you figured it out!

May not be done with your offer yet. If these aren't clear enough I'll bounce them to you.

 

[ERJ-140]

I don't know what the gain setting is because that knob wasn't entirely in the shot. May have been dialed down a touch. The VAR in amber on the PFD and MFD shows it is not in AUTO Gain mode. We picked our way around all of this stuff without a bump. There was more ahead of us but I have the range dialed in.

These taken from the left seat (mine) of an EMB-135LR using a P-660 Radar.



http://www.solisearch.net/ims/pic.php?u=15979V0Tw5&i=102174 Zoomed in #1

http://www.solisearch.net/ims/pic.php?u=15979V0Tw5&i=102175 Zoomed in #2

The image clarity is better on my PC but this stupid site keeps reducing them to a smaller size.



Originals prior to cropping:

http://www.solisearch.net/ims/pic.php?u=15979V0Tw5&i=102162

http://www.solisearch.net/ims/pic.php?u=15979V0Tw5&i=102163

 

[Lead Sled]

Thanks tremendously for that. I am glad someone sees what I am trying to say here.

I do understand what you're saying; but like I also said, I really don't agree or subscribe to that technique. You can get all of the information that you need by simply manipulating the tilt. Gain is best left alone. When it used, it's only to identify returns with dBs higher than the red/magenta threashold. That, in reality, serves little useful purpose - on the assumption that if any part of a cell is contouring, the entire cell must be considered as contouring.

The only problem I see is that the EMB radar paints so much ground clutter that tilt alone doesn't always seem to work.

If you've got the tilt set properly, ground clutter won't be an issue. Whether or not your particular radar system is installed in a Jungle Jet makes no difference. [Note: When you're working weather, down low, close in, on approach or departure, the appropriate tilt setting may be "full up".]

I would be very interested in either. Would you suggest one over the other or one first then the other? Gwinn's sounds like the one to take. Where do you find out how to attend one?

Gwinn's is the one to take. The last time I checked, you could register for one of his Honeywell sponsered radar courses for little or no cost. I'd contact customer service at Honeywell for more information. Trammel's course is OK as well.

'Sled

 

[Lead Sled]

For what it's worth. I see you've got a Honeywell radar in the jungle jet so you probably will be able to attend one of Honeywell's courses no charge - at least that's the way it worked a couple of years ago. You can get a radar shadow with any level of precipitation if you play around with the gain. (Think of the gain as the volume control on the radar receiver.)

'Sled

 

[ERJ-140]

For what it's worth. I see you've got a Honeywell radar in the jungle jet so you probably will be able to attend one of Honeywell's courses no charge - at least that's the way it worked a couple of years ago. You can get a radar shadow with any level of precipitation if you play around with the gain. (Think of the gain as the volume control on the radar receiver.)

'Sled

THANK YOU! THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU! That is what I was trying to get across!

I -will- be attending one of those courses in the near future for sure. Sounds like a good class.