Leaving Jetblue

[Smarta$$]

Our leadership mentioned they may add money to our retirement at some point but did not specify a time frame. Jetblue has been telling us we are 2.3% behind for 3 years. In reality we are 30-40% behind. There will be no change to retirement portion of our benefits. They may increase our retirement in another manner but it won't be on a monthly basis.

Well, you are confusing 2 different ways of representing the numbers. They are refering to 2.3% as a match of our salary. Which compared to our current 10% 401k funding would be an increase of 23%.

You don't have to exagerate to make your point. I think you are correct that our retirement is 30-40% behind our major airline peers, but that only translates to 3-4% of our overall compensation.

13-14% 401k match represents a 30-40% increase in retirement funding, but only a 3-4% increase in overall compensation.

You are exagerating for effect. Stick with facts and you get more people to share your concerns... As I do.

 

[banger]

Well, you are confusing 2 different ways of representing the numbers. They are refering to 2.3% as a match of our salary. Which compared to our current 10% 401k funding would be an increase of 23%.

You don't have to exagerate to make your point. I think you are correct that our retirement is 30-40% behind our major airline peers, but that only translates to 3-4% of our overall compensation.

13-14% 401k match represents a 30-40% increase in retirement funding, but only a 3-4% increase in overall compensation.

You are exagerating for effect. Stick with facts and you get more people to share your concerns... As I do.

What bothers me is that the comparison with the representative airlines is done for a previous year. So when and if we get that raise it is already a year behind. Then we hear from our own pay committee that an already agreed upon method for pay raises (I didn't agree) might not be honored. To me this is not in good faith.

 

[Smarta$$]

What bothers me is that the comparison with the representative airlines is done for a previous year. So when and if we get that raise it is already a year behind. Then we hear from our own pay committee that an already agreed upon method for pay raises (I didn't agree) might not be honored. To me this is not in good faith.

It bothers me as well. Furthermore, if you listened to RB explain during the conference calls, he said they are concerned about the pay review policy because AA and SW may be taking paycuts (his words, so no thread drift please). He forgot to mention that DAL and United-CAL will probably be getting good raises, as well as cost of living increases at Spirit, Alaska, and others that will likely offset "potential" decreases in AA and SW. Not that I think they will take pay rate decreases anyway.

I think it is just posturing and expectations management more than anything though. After a pilot caller pushed him a little bit on the subject, RB backtracked and said they ARE NOT looking at pay reductions, and will most likely follow the agreed upon pay review process. He said that they just want to be cautious about pay increases because they have no process or intent to claw back pay rates once agreed upon. To me, it was managing expectations and posturing so that when they do give us our little 2% raise, that we don't bitch about not getting more.

Pretty standard corporate playbook stuff.

But yes, our raises come a year later than others in my opinion. But without a union and a CBA, we are never going to be "leaders". We will ride on other coat tales. Not that unions always get their raises in a timely matter either. Seems the typical raises at the union shops come in a timely matter during the contract and then after the amendable period, you wait 3-5 years without anything, until you get a new agreement that never seems to make up all the ground you lost.

 

[Dizel8]

Smartie,

Naw, rather not call you an idiot and I hope that the "talk" does indeed come true, but it has been promised so many times, that most of us just gave up believing it. Maybe this time it'll be true, time will tell.

Of course, what we must not forget, is that at present, we are amongst the most productive pilot group, if not number one, and yet, we are still just hoping for industry average.

Seems like above average performance should also mean above average pay!

 

[fifty30retard]

Smartie,

Naw, rather not call you an idiot and I hope that the "talk" does indeed come true, but it has been promised so many times, that most of us just gave up believing it. Maybe this time it'll be true, time will tell.

Of course, what we must not forget, is that at present, we are amongst the most productive pilot group, if not number one, and yet, we are still just hoping for industry average.

Seems like above average performance should also mean above average pay!

You are correct Sir.

 

[Smarta$$]

Smartie,

Naw, rather not call you an idiot and I hope that the "talk" does indeed come true, but it has been promised so many times, that most of us just gave up believing it. Maybe this time it'll be true, time will tell.

Of course, what we must not forget, is that at present, we are amongst the most productive pilot group, if not number one, and yet, we are still just hoping for industry average.

Seems like above average performance should also mean above average pay!

No doubt.

 

[Turtle21]

That part about USAir is interesting. Retirement might be the way they get rid of east and give more and more routes to west. I'm not sure if that's how it works.

The current contracts have min fleets on both sides so neither side will be flying more routes for the other, unless the contracts change. All new hires are being added to the East operations (training department rumor is that there will be between 200 and 300 pilots added by years end, all to replace retiring East pilots). New hires will soon be added to 737, 320, and may also go to 757.

 

[Lake Alice]

Well, you are confusing 2 different ways of representing the numbers. They are refering to 2.3% as a match of our salary. Which compared to our current 10% 401k funding would be an increase of 23%.

You don't have to exagerate to make your point. I think you are correct that our retirement is 30-40% behind our major airline peers, but that only translates to 3-4% of our overall compensation.

13-14% 401k match represents a 30-40% increase in retirement funding, but only a 3-4% increase in overall compensation.

You are exagerating for effect. Stick with facts and you get more people to share your concerns... As I do.

The facts are our retirement is 8-13% behind our peers. We are a MINIMUM of 2% behind in pay. If you want to know the truth about what JetBlues plans for our retirement email BT on the PVC. A plan is already in place to "sell" to the pilot group. The pro-pilot PVC members refuse to endorse it. Take a look at the latest pay charts BP has and see for yourself how far behind you are.
I'm neither confusing or exagerating a point. I have a sound financial plan so compound interest is important to me. Providing a non guaranteed 5% at the end of the year is not retirement. Adding an additional 2.3% at the end of the year is a bonus and not retirement.
Those are facts.

 

[Smarta$$]

The facts are our retirement is 8-13% behind our peers. We are a MINIMUM of 2% behind in pay. If you want to know the truth about what JetBlues plans for our retirement email BT on the PVC. A plan is already in place to "sell" to the pilot group. The pro-pilot PVC members refuse to endorse it. Take a look at the latest pay charts BP has and see for yourself how far behind you are.
I'm neither confusing or exagerating a point. I have a sound financial plan so compound interest is important to me. Providing a non guaranteed 5% at the end of the year is not retirement. Adding an additional 2.3% at the end of the year is a bonus and not retirement.
Those are facts.

8-13% What happened to 30-40%?

You won't get an argument from me about needing improvements in retirement and pay.

I am pretty sure I never gave you the impression that improvements were not necessary.

I am pulling in the same direction bro and I share your concerns.

 

[xjt40]

I appreciate the due respect, and you are correct that I have not been here long enough to witness the broken promises. However, I am a naturally skeptical person when it comes to corporate executives and their propensity to doing anything but the right thing.

The next 358 days will give us the answer. I do have some confidence because I have had a few of top guys on my aircraft (including the top finance guy), in addition to public comments on 2 conference calls that say the money is IN the budget, and IS a straight increase in overall pilot compensation.

Call me an idiot in 358 days, and if it doesn't happen, I will agree with you.

Well if an exec told a 1st year fo then it must be true. And you are giving them another year to fix it? Are they going to be giving us retro and interest lost? retirement is really the money earning interest not just the actual money , but you must know that if you are retiring at 52. Im sorry if I sound like a ****************************** but for the first few years you may want to kind of do some homework on whats taken place prior to your arrival before you get all giddy about an exec on your flight feeding you some hope and blue juice. I was there where you are 5 years ago new place, new plane , cool execs shaking my hand on the plane. We should all have some career expectations as airline pilots to get us out of the back seat and help to control our destiny.

 

[Smarta$$]

Well if an exec told a 1st year fo then it must be true. And you are giving them another year to fix it? Are they going to be giving us retro and interest lost? retirement is really the money earning interest not just the actual money , but you must know that if you are retiring at 52. Im sorry if I sound like a ****************************** but for the first few years you may want to kind of do some homework on whats taken place prior to your arrival before you get all giddy about an exec on your flight feeding you some hope and blue juice. I was there where you are 5 years ago new place, new plane , cool execs shaking my hand on the plane. We should all have some career expectations as airline pilots to get us out of the back seat and help to control our destiny.

Cute...

 

[ATR-DRIVR]

Cute...

NO, CORRECT. Learn from the past performance from the company and talk to the people who have been here since day one and KNOW what the scorecard is...

 

[Smarta$$]

NO, CORRECT. Learn from the past performance from the company and talk to the people who have been here since day one and KNOW what the scorecard is...

Thank you for the advice. Everything is so clear to me now.

 

[geardown]

Living up to your name?

 

[Smarta$$]

Living up to your name?

Don't like being talked down to. Or the assumption that this is my first rodeo. It's not.