Leaving Jetblue

[RiddleEagle18]

JB movement as far as leaving has been very little that was my point. Maybe it will change but right now people are staying at JB. Just talked to an FO that left Compass and didn't want the free upgrade to Detla.....

I left compass as well. There have been a few of us. For me the reality was that it would take 3 years worth of Delta hiring to get my slot. Who knows when they will actually start hiring so i was figuring 5 years to a class date best case.

5 years is an eternity in this business and are still a few provisions where the flow could be eliminated or have to be renegotiated.(Another sale of compass). The thought of being owned by Hulas (Trans States Holdings) for another 5 years just hoping nothing went wrong scared the piss out of me.

My app is still in at delta. If they call great. At that point I would have to do a cost/benefit of leaving. If they dont call fine. There are very few places I would leave JetBlue for.

 

[Lake Alice]

I don't have a number at Delta but I would like to have one. Leaving Compass for Jetblue is a good idea. The working environment and schedules are mostly better and I believe your pay should improve as well. The issue you will be forced to deal with is will your satisfaction for a working environment(B6) supersede the need for better pay and benefits(DAL).

 

[johnsonrod]

To each his own... No way I would leave a Compass E175 (with a Delta slot) for a Jet Blue E190. What's the difference between the two jobs? Not much. Upgrade at JB will be long - you'll be sitting on that E190 for awhile just like you would have been at Compass for awhile...

I'd personally rather go for the Delta slot and then have the variety of aircraft types, pilot bases, better pay/benefits and worldwide routes that Delta offers. I'd take a long-term perspective because the choices of "great" airlines out there to work for is narrowing. If you go to SWA after the merger finalizes, you make good money but you have a 18-20 year upgrade. Fedex is great but you have to be a B2 Bomber pilot to qualify in most cases. Airlines like AA and USAirways could potentially merge. UAL probably won't hire for a long, long time. It seems like VA is always running on cash fumes. Not a lot of great choices.

Again, to each his own...

 

[Smarta$$]

To each his own... No way I would leave a Compass E175 (with a Delta slot) for a Jet Blue E190. What's the difference between the two jobs? Not much. Upgrade at JB will be long - you'll be sitting on that E190 for awhile just like you would have been at Compass for awhile...

I'd personally rather go for the Delta slot and then have the variety of aircraft types, pilot bases, better pay/benefits and worldwide routes that Delta offers. I'd take a long-term perspective because the choices of "great" airlines out there to work for is narrowing. If you go to SWA after the merger finalizes, you make good money but you have a 18-20 year upgrade. Fedex is great but you have to be a B2 Bomber pilot to qualify in most cases. Airlines like AA and USAirways could potentially merge. UAL probably won't hire for a long, long time. It seems like VA is always running on cash fumes. Not a lot of great choices.

Again, to each his own...

Yet another F-ing retarded comment out of JackRod.

Why don't you ask the guy above if this place is not much different than Compass? Why don't you ask him if he is happy with his decision?

 

[TommyG]

I will eventually leave Compass for JBlue too. I NEED A CLASS DATE!!!! Sitting around for a flow that may or may not happen is ridiculous. The sale of CP to TS came out of nowhere and another sale will only put the flow in more jeopardy. I too would be looking at 3 years or more to flow. I have 6 internal recs to Delta. I'd be off the street hired way before Compass made my life grand. I hate commuting to DTW and living in CT an being based in BOS with Blue will be awesome.

 

[johnsonrod]

Yet another F-ing retarded comment out of JackRod.

Why don't you ask the guy above if this place is not much different than Compass? Why don't you ask him if he is happy with his decision?

Aaaaah, you are living up to your name Smarta$$. I guess we are not entitled to our opinions - right? I gave my opinion and I said "to each his own." Are you blind as well as a dumba$$?

Clearly you are not happy with your job at JB and you are insecure - therefore you lash out at others who hold different opinions...

I know several people at Compass - some who have the secured slot and some recent hires. Yeah, I don't work there, but I have a good idea what it is like. Personally, I don't see much of a difference between the E175 job at Compass and the E190 job at JB - both fly basically the same airplane and both fly regional routes. He swapped one Embraer for another. Additionally, the benefits at JB SUCK and everyone knows it. That's a fact, JACK! If he is happy there at JB - good for him... I hope he has a stellar career at JB if he is indeed happy there. I wish we could all be that happy. Doesn't sound like you are happy at all.

Rolling the dice and hoping to get picked up by Delta will be a real crap shoot. Delta is going to become super-competitive once hiring begins again. Think about all of the typed widebody pilots, retiring military, and more senior JB pilots who have more hours than you who will be applying - each with internal recommendations. It will be super competitive because few will want to go to UAL with it's furloughees and other issues - Delta and Fedex are the top choices for many pilots. It will be like winning the lotto with thousands of very competitive applicants.

Personally, there is NO way I would give up a secured slot at Delta if I had that option. I know a bunch of senior people at Mesaba gave up their flow-through slots to Delta and I am sure they are regretting that decision now given Pinnacle's economic situation. It's a personal choice, but you need to look at the odds.... If you are given something like a secured slot to one of the best airlines in the world, even if you have to wait a few years during this recession when few legacy airlines are actually hiring, why give that up?????????? Again, TO EACH HIS OWN....

 

[TommyG]

The flow is not a secure slot. Let's see how the American secured deal works out with Eagle through bankruptcy. It wouldn't take too much legal maneuvering to negate the flow. Nothing in this game is secure until its happened. To wait 3-5 years at a regional is not the way to go. I've already seen the promise of the year upgrade at CP come and go. Now its my turn to go.

 

[Flyby1206]

Yea, ask the Eagle guys about flow through agreements. 10+yrs after they were supposed to flow they got the chance for it. Definitely not worth it. I would leave compass and hang at JetBlue while trying to get in the front door at DAL before those flowthroughs.

 

[RiddleEagle18]

Comparing the Compass job and the jetblue job because they fly the same type rated a/c is silly. Same a/c, same flying, but different job.

Every year Delta doesnt hire makes it a good decision for me and puts money in my pocket. Money to the tune of an extra 150k-200k depending on how long it would take for me to have started class at delta.

Like I said it would take around 15 years to make up the difference if it would have taken 5 years to flow. (Not to mention it is allowing me to purchase a home at record low interest rates/prices.)

Its not even really about the money though. The fact that the flow was not 100% secure and I had to work for a trans states holdings company while waiting helped make my decision easier. Plus I live within driving distance of a JetBlue base.

If I had a Delta seniority number and not just a promise for one, I would have stuck it out at Compass.

 

[Smarta$$]

Aaaaah, you are living up to your name Smarta$$. I guess we are not entitled to our opinions - right? I gave my opinion and I said "to each his own." Are you blind as well as a dumba$$?

Clearly you are not happy with your job at JB and you are insecure - therefore you lash out at others who hold different opinions...

I know several people at Compass - some who have the secured slot and some recent hires. Yeah, I don't work there, but I have a good idea what it is like. Personally, I don't see much of a difference between the E175 job at Compass and the E190 job at JB - both fly basically the same airplane and both fly regional routes. He swapped one Embraer for another. Additionally, the benefits at JB SUCK and everyone knows it. That's a fact, JACK! If he is happy there at JB - good for him... I hope he has a stellar career at JB if he is indeed happy there. I wish we could all be that happy. Doesn't sound like you are happy at all.

Rolling the dice and hoping to get picked up by Delta will be a real crap shoot. Delta is going to become super-competitive once hiring begins again. Think about all of the typed widebody pilots, retiring military, and more senior JB pilots who have more hours than you who will be applying - each with internal recommendations. It will be super competitive because few will want to go to UAL with it's furloughees and other issues - Delta and Fedex are the top choices for many pilots. It will be like winning the lotto with thousands of very competitive applicants.

Personally, there is NO way I would give up a secured slot at Delta if I had that option. I know a bunch of senior people at Mesaba gave up their flow-through slots to Delta and I am sure they are regretting that decision now given Pinnacle's economic situation. It's a personal choice, but you need to look at the odds.... If you are given something like a secured slot to one of the best airlines in the world, even if you have to wait a few years during this recession when few legacy airlines are actually hiring, why give that up?????????? Again, TO EACH HIS OWN....

You said to each his own, but you still made a stupid comment. You talk about the E190 as if it is the only plane we have. More than half of our 2011 new hires went to the bus. You think same plane means same job. You couldn't be more wrong. You say our benefits suck, compared to Compass? Our healthcare is expensive, but our retirement is 10% (including guaranteed profit sharing) and increasing this year to 13%. What is Compass's retirement? The quality of our total job is FAR better and more secure than Compass, or any other subcontract airline.

Also, there is NO guarantee that those guys will flow, or if they will flow in the next decade. They are also subject to being flushed out if Delta happens to hit hard times and furloughs.

Despite what a few blow-hards say on this board, JetBlue is a great place to work. It is FAR better than I expected it to be from the outside looking in. This is a great job, and will only get better. Not that we should not expect improvements in our benefits.

Over time, our pay and benefits (maybe not healthcare without a union) will trend ever closer to Delta's. If you consider where this airline has gone in its first 12 years, I think you will be surprised and impressed with what this airline will be 10+15+20 years from now. We are hiring aggressively, with over 100 airplanes on order. Our planes are full, we keep winning awards, and our finances have never been stronger, even in this economy. To ignore an opportunity here because you MIGHT, MAYBE, SOMEDAY (no idea when), get to flow to Delta (if the airline isn't sold or merged or furloughed or flushed or........)....

You make an assessment about the next 30 years of someone's career based on a snapshot of what an airline looks like today. You apparently are not able to recognize the trajectory of a company, to see where it has been, and where it will likely go.

I have been reading your dribble for years. You have the brain power of a hamster.

I love my job, and am glad you don't want to be here. I am also glad that you want to wait at your regional for Fedex or Delta, because you will never be hired by either one. I have observed your thought processes and critical thinking skills enough to be confident in that.

 

[Lake Alice]

Lets be clear about a few things. Our retirement is not 10%. Its 5% with a non-guaranteed 5% at the end of the year. There is no plan in place to raise the retirement to 13%. There has been talk as there has been for the past 6 years of this particular discussion. The Jetblue excuse that we are only 12 year old is, well, old and tired. The fact that we are 12 years into operating has no bearing on what we pay for health insurance.
Jetblue may be a nice place to work but our benefits are not far from a regional.

 

[Smarta$$]

Lets be clear about a few things. Our retirement is not 10%. Its 5% with a non-guaranteed 5% at the end of the year. There is no plan in place to raise the retirement to 13%. There has been talk as there has been for the past 6 years of this particular discussion. The Jetblue excuse that we are only 12 year old is, well, old and tired. The fact that we are 12 years into operating has no bearing on what we pay for health insurance.
Jetblue may be a nice place to work but our benefits are not far from a regional.

JetBlue a nice place to work? I guess we both agree. I spent 6 years at a regional. Our healthcare plans are too expensive, but our retirement is FAR better. We can argue about the definitions of what is retirement and what is profit sharing. The fact is that the company places 10% (increasing to 13%) of our salary into our 401k. It is not all placed in our plans in a timely manner. I am also not satisfied that 5% of our money is deposited after the end of the year. Either way, 10% of our salary is placed in our 401K plan from day one of employment. Show me ANY regional that can touch that. With compounding interest over a career, that is VERY valuable.

We can argue about what the definition of guaranteed is, but the fact is that JB pays that 5% "profit sharing". Even if no profit. So, while I would prefer it defined in a contract (I am CBA supporter), it is paid. And has been for sometime. Until it isn't being paid, you are just making a technical argument. Now is it profit sharing, if it is paid into our 401k, and is paid even if NO profit. Personally, I say no. It is a retirement contribution. I happen to view us as not having a profit sharing, because in effect, we don't.

Also, I was not using the 12 year excuse. I was saying that it is impressive where we are after 12 years. That is no excuse for having sub-par benefits, and I didn't imply that it was. Our benefits problem stems from not having a CBA mostly.

As to whether or not our 401k is increasing this year to 13%, you have 359 days to prove me wrong, and I have 359 days to prove me right. So lets not even bother with that one yet.

So if you want to still argue definitions of profit sharing and retirement. Fine. I don't really care what you call it. The fact is that JetBlue will put 10% of my salary into my 401k, regardless of what it is labelled. Which regionals put 10% into their pilots 401k from day one of training? Not Compost, and not any other regional airline, most are off that mark by -50 to -80%.

Our retirement is not perfect, ideal, or set up in the manner that I would like, and needs improvement. Our healthcare costs need improvement. Other benefits need improvement. But this is still a great job, and you know it.

 

[Lake Alice]

Air Wisconsin 5% with 3% fixed, Comair 6%, Mesaba up to 12.5%, Horizon up to 10%, Piedmont up to 8%. We have fairly similar medical plans. We are not far off from a regional. But we are a nice place to work.

 

[Lake Alice]

Smart

Look man I'm not picking on you. I know we are not a regional. But we ar far off from a major. Jetblue in my time has chosen to trend towards the regional rather than a major. We have a fixed operating budget for pilot pay/benefits. The company does not hide this. For every raise/benefit we receive somewhere else we pay more. Receive a raise, fly more days. Increase the retirement increase the insurance. We are a cost neutral pilot group. This was a huge issue with the ALPA supporters. At some point we need to close the gap that is larger than F/H and Jetblue reported.

 

[Flyby1206]

I spent 7 years at a regional before coming to JB. When I flew a 50 seat RJ I would compare my company and benefits to other places that operated a 50seat RJ.

Now that I am here at JB I compare our pay/benefits to other operators of similar equipment (A319/320/321, 737, E190) and I see we could do some catching up. Our dollar per hour rates arent terrible, but we could use some work rule improvements along with better insurance rates and change the 401k match to more solid language so that we dont continue to have arguements over "what is considered retirement?"

Jetblue is a seriously great place to work, and I prefer to be here as opposed to Delta. As our company grows and becomes a more permanent fixture in the industry, we as a pilot group need to have more definition and security in our career as well.