Leaving Jetblue

[Lake Alice]

Smartie,

Where is your 13% number coming from?

Our leadership mentioned they may add money to our retirement at some point but did not specify a time frame. Jetblue has been telling us we are 2.3% behind for 3 years. In reality we are 30-40% behind. There will be no change to retirement portion of our benefits. They may increase our retirement in another manner but it won't be on a monthly basis.

 

[Dizel8]

Lake,

Yep, we have heard that story before, plenty of times as a matter of fact, hence I was curious who "promised" it this time around.

I can only surmise, and I say this with all due respect, that Snartie hasn't been here long enough to have witnessed all the broken promises.

 

[Smarta$$]

Smartie,

Where is your 13% number coming from?

I have had a few Exec's on my aircraft lately that have said that was approximately the number they had included in the 2012 budget. They said the method for closing the gap was to be determined by them, the PVC, and possibly a vote between a few choices by the pilot group.

They have also said on 2 conference calls that the ADDITIONAL money has been included in the 2012 budget for retirement improvements, and that it didn't matter when in 2012 it was finalized because the method would be retroactive for the entire year.

 

[Smarta$$]

We have heard this before. "There is a work around for that". Ill believe it when I see it.

Fair enough. I guess we will know in the next 358 days.

 

[Smarta$$]

Lake,

Yep, we have heard that story before, plenty of times as a matter of fact, hence I was curious who "promised" it this time around.

I can only surmise, and I say this with all due respect, that Snartie hasn't been here long enough to have witnessed all the broken promises.

I appreciate the due respect, and you are correct that I have not been here long enough to witness the broken promises. However, I am a naturally skeptical person when it comes to corporate executives and their propensity to doing anything but the right thing.

The next 358 days will give us the answer. I do have some confidence because I have had a few of top guys on my aircraft (including the top finance guy), in addition to public comments on 2 conference calls that say the money is IN the budget, and IS a straight increase in overall pilot compensation.

Call me an idiot in 358 days, and if it doesn't happen, I will agree with you.

 

[Smarta$$]

Our leadership mentioned they may add money to our retirement at some point but did not specify a time frame. Jetblue has been telling us we are 2.3% behind for 3 years. In reality we are 30-40% behind. There will be no change to retirement portion of our benefits. They may increase our retirement in another manner but it won't be on a monthly basis.

Well, you are confusing 2 different ways of representing the numbers. They are refering to 2.3% as a match of our salary. Which compared to our current 10% 401k funding would be an increase of 23%.

You don't have to exagerate to make your point. I think you are correct that our retirement is 30-40% behind our major airline peers, but that only translates to 3-4% of our overall compensation.

13-14% 401k match represents a 30-40% increase in retirement funding, but only a 3-4% increase in overall compensation.

You are exagerating for effect. Stick with facts and you get more people to share your concerns... As I do.

 

[banger]

Well, you are confusing 2 different ways of representing the numbers. They are refering to 2.3% as a match of our salary. Which compared to our current 10% 401k funding would be an increase of 23%.

You don't have to exagerate to make your point. I think you are correct that our retirement is 30-40% behind our major airline peers, but that only translates to 3-4% of our overall compensation.

13-14% 401k match represents a 30-40% increase in retirement funding, but only a 3-4% increase in overall compensation.

You are exagerating for effect. Stick with facts and you get more people to share your concerns... As I do.

What bothers me is that the comparison with the representative airlines is done for a previous year. So when and if we get that raise it is already a year behind. Then we hear from our own pay committee that an already agreed upon method for pay raises (I didn't agree) might not be honored. To me this is not in good faith.

 

[Smarta$$]

What bothers me is that the comparison with the representative airlines is done for a previous year. So when and if we get that raise it is already a year behind. Then we hear from our own pay committee that an already agreed upon method for pay raises (I didn't agree) might not be honored. To me this is not in good faith.

It bothers me as well. Furthermore, if you listened to RB explain during the conference calls, he said they are concerned about the pay review policy because AA and SW may be taking paycuts (his words, so no thread drift please). He forgot to mention that DAL and United-CAL will probably be getting good raises, as well as cost of living increases at Spirit, Alaska, and others that will likely offset "potential" decreases in AA and SW. Not that I think they will take pay rate decreases anyway.

I think it is just posturing and expectations management more than anything though. After a pilot caller pushed him a little bit on the subject, RB backtracked and said they ARE NOT looking at pay reductions, and will most likely follow the agreed upon pay review process. He said that they just want to be cautious about pay increases because they have no process or intent to claw back pay rates once agreed upon. To me, it was managing expectations and posturing so that when they do give us our little 2% raise, that we don't bitch about not getting more.

Pretty standard corporate playbook stuff.

But yes, our raises come a year later than others in my opinion. But without a union and a CBA, we are never going to be "leaders". We will ride on other coat tales. Not that unions always get their raises in a timely matter either. Seems the typical raises at the union shops come in a timely matter during the contract and then after the amendable period, you wait 3-5 years without anything, until you get a new agreement that never seems to make up all the ground you lost.

 

[Dizel8]

Smartie,

Naw, rather not call you an idiot and I hope that the "talk" does indeed come true, but it has been promised so many times, that most of us just gave up believing it. Maybe this time it'll be true, time will tell.

Of course, what we must not forget, is that at present, we are amongst the most productive pilot group, if not number one, and yet, we are still just hoping for industry average.

Seems like above average performance should also mean above average pay!

 

[fifty30retard]

Smartie,

Naw, rather not call you an idiot and I hope that the "talk" does indeed come true, but it has been promised so many times, that most of us just gave up believing it. Maybe this time it'll be true, time will tell.

Of course, what we must not forget, is that at present, we are amongst the most productive pilot group, if not number one, and yet, we are still just hoping for industry average.

Seems like above average performance should also mean above average pay!

You are correct Sir.