Leave SWA for AA or Delta?

[WMUSIGPI]

Isn't something like 40+% of Deltoids flying done by RJ's? When will all those RJ pilots be put on Deltoids MSL, without interviewing?

We have been told, outside the grandfathered NWA agreements, Never. The best we could ever hope for is a guaranteed interview with Delta.

 

[dicko]

Just imagine for a moment.

5.5-6 yr FO, early 30s, at SWA.
Still in the bottom 10% (believe it or not.)

Discuss.....

That's ridiculous. - 'Wave' says that there are no young pilots at SWA. There is no way you could have been hired in your late twenties or early thirties. It takes eons of experience to be hired at SWA. You must be "significantly older".

Wave said it's true. Therefore you must not exist.





P.S. Good luck with your decision

 

[General Lee]

Here's where we completely agree General.

Remember those DC-9-10's that held 74 passengers?

What was the seating config on those large RJs you guys just signed off on? Those guys are making a THIRD the salary. Good job.

Those RJ pilots aren't in the mainline pilot group, a lot of them aren't owned by DL. AT pilots are on your seniority list, and they fly the exact same planes. Come on Red, you know that.... Good try. I think Lufthansa should also pay 747-800 pilots the same as Zeplin Blimp pilots of the past, they are the same size..... Great DC9-10 analogy.... Good try Red...


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[General Lee]

Isn't something like 40+% of Deltoids flying done by RJ's? When will all those RJ pilots be put on Deltoids MSL, without interviewing?

That percentage is decreasing rapidly, via the contract in the form of ratios, and higher gas prices allowing the parking of 215 50 seaters, vs adding 70 76 seaters. Throw in 88 717s and the percentages of mainline vs DCI lean a lot more towards mainline. Not all of the RJ pilots were flying for companies owned by DL. The Compass pilots WERE initially employed by NWA and then DL, and they negotiated a direct flow up. The Endeavor or PNCL pilots get preferential interviews, but obviously DL wants control of who they hire, and with higher new hire pay and upcoming growth and retirements, it won't be tough to find quality applicants. I bet many Corndogs, especially in the bottom half of their list, will apply. Stagnation appears very plausible there.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[General Lee]

Really? Even you can't believe that our deal is even remotely similar to the RJ fiasco the legacies have been dealing with for nearly a quarter century.




Why not? Your union did the same thing, only worse. It took the Pan Am guys who transitioned to Delta 27 months to make pay parity. And they were on the Delta property, flying Delta metal, in Delta uniforms with Delta ID on their shirts. Gary offered the AT guys pay parity on (almost) day one, but they turned it down.

I can't believe that the legacy guys had their heads so far up their keisters that they allowed the RJ scourge to destroy so many careers in the first place.

Our short term deal during the AT transition is nothing compared to the RJ atrocity that the legacies have committed on this career.

So, because a company did something years ago, it's ok to do it today? Air Beirut probably made their DC3 pilots in the 1950s poop in buckets. Soooo, you guys should do it today? Come on! DL/NWA just did the pay parity thing a couple years before your own merger. You guys had the chance to watch two mergers, and how things worked out at each. Did you guys learn anything? Apparently not. Quit making excuses while using the past to justify it.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Tripower455]

So, because a company did something years ago, it's ok to do it today? Air Beirut probably made their DC3 pilots in the 1950s poop in buckets. Soooo, you guys should do it today? Come on! DL/NWA just did the pay parity thing a couple years before your own merger. You guys had the chance to watch two mergers, and how things worked out at each. Did you guys learn anything? Apparently not. Quit making excuses while using the past to justify it.


Bye Bye---General Lee

You truly are a case study in the lack of reading comprehension.

 

[redflyer65]

Those RJ pilots aren't in the mainline pilot group, a lot of them aren't owned by DL. AT pilots are on your seniority list, and they fly the exact same planes. Come on Red, you know that.... Good try. I think Lufthansa should also pay 747-800 pilots the same as Zeplin Blimp pilots of the past, they are the same size..... Great DC9-10 analogy.... Good try Red...


Bye Bye---General Lee

Good try? Haha.

You have guys flying YOUR passengers around at a THIRD of the mainline rate. You know, the same size planes that you recently flew. Around 40% of your domestic feed is from Connection. Flying you should be doing...not some other outsourced company.

Meanwhile, AirTran was offered the same pay from the guy who has the checkbook. It got turned down. It's all over and done with in a year and you say it's the same as 25+ years of DALPA outsourcing and counting. Your argument makes you look like an idiot General.

 

[Ky.BrownBourbn]

People always say " a whole bunch of SWA FOs are going to leave because they can upgrade at other carriers faster." , but for some reason, we never hear about people who have actually left SWA to go to a legacy.

in 2007 I was in the crew room and a girl was in there was saying it was her last day, she was going to UPS. (she had her reasons, believe her husband was Fedex and they could both be based in Alaska), She left and was furloughed shortly after getting there AND I was always told that "FedEx and UPS were the most STABLE JOBS in the industry!" Their is nothing stable in this business, NOTHING!!!

People do leave, an ex assistant CP would state "that management knew people would be leaving when the big boys started hiring." but it still hasn't come to fruition! if the hiring "Flood gates" ever open I think you'll see more leave BUT until then, I doubt it.

And what happens if the retirement age goes to 67 (or higher), those rumors are still out there!

Later,
KBB

 

[General Lee]

in 2007 I was in the crew room and a girl was in there was saying it was her last day, she was going to UPS. (she had her reasons, believe her husband was Fedex and they could both be based in Alaska), She left and was furloughed shortly after getting there AND I was always told that "FedEx and UPS were the most STABLE JOBS in the industry!" Their is nothing stable in this business, NOTHING!!!

People do leave, an ex assistant CP would state "that management knew people would be leaving when the big boys started hiring." but it still hasn't come to fruition! if the hiring "Flood gates" ever open I think you'll see more leave BUT until then, I doubt it.

And what happens if the retirement age goes to 67 (or higher), those rumors are still out there!

Later,
KBB

Only SWA Capts and AMEs want age 67. What I have heard is that the UAL Capt who died over BOI and the FO had to divert into there really hurt the "age 67" movement.

The floodgates at the big 3 really haven't opened up yet, and there probably are plenty of bottom Corndogs and AT pilots looking to avoid certain stagnation. It's just a matter of when.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[General Lee]

Good try? Haha.

You have guys flying YOUR passengers around at a THIRD of the mainline rate. You know, the same size planes that you recently flew. Around 40% of your domestic feed is from Connection. Flying you should be doing...not some other outsourced company.

Meanwhile, AirTran was offered the same pay from the guy who has the checkbook. It got turned down. It's all over and done with in a year and you say it's the same as 25+ years of DALPA outsourcing and counting. Your argument makes you look like an idiot General.

Red,

Do you think LH 748 Capts should get Zeplin blimp pay? Same size, different eras though. But, you seem to think that matters....

And, you obviously take the first offer at the used car lot. If you had an agreement that stated arbitration was an option, why take the first offer? Oh, I guess we all figured something out though.... When negotiating with your bosses, you BETTER take the first offer, or watch out! Do your union guys know this? Uhhhh ohhhhh. There go your next contract talks....


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[E120ASA]

Go to AA, you don't want to be known as a Wind checker or a Delta radio (121.50) radio abuser all your life, do you? Have Fun....

 

[waveflyer]

I agree with the just of your post, however you are mixing up seniority and longevity...poster is not ganging seniority if they are not expanding or retiring pilots.

This is such a GOOD point ig-

Over the years talking to a lot of usair pilots- why didn't you leave?
"Bc I didn't want to start over"
You did start over
Right wrong sh/tty or not if you're on the bottom, you're on the bottom.
There is value to longevity, true- but don't mix up the terms as you navigate this career

 

[GEORGE DUBYA]

Just imagine for a moment.

5.5-6 yr FO, early 30s, at SWA.
Still in the bottom 10% (believe it or not.)

Upgrade is a total of 20-21 years.

Morale is getting stinky here.
We've bungled Hawaii, Class 2 nav, our route structure, we're late.
Our CEO is more focused on saving money than growth.
Contract neg. are going nowhere.

Work rules are ok, pay is good.

Given the massive retirements coming, would you consider leaving for AA or Delta??

Why or why not?
Discuss.....

I didn't know AA or Delta had a Milan base

 

[-9Capt]

Right wrong sh/tty or not if you're on the bottom, you're on the bottom.
There is value to longevity, true- but don't mix up the terms as you navigate this career

If anyone requires additional clarification between longevity and seniority, please don't hesitate to query an AirTran pilot regarding the matter.

 

[madjack]

-9cpt:

To paraphrase GK at a recent AAI transition class talk: We like it here at SWA if you (AAI transition pilot(s)) are unhappy, GO SOMEWHERE ELSE...