Leave SWA for AA or Delta?

[STL717]

Tell me what the economy will do in the next few years and I'll tell you what to do....

 

[ultrarunner]

It's all a roll of the dice.

Take my career so far. ....

Great post LearLove...

 

[General Lee]

Just my 2 cents, but i'd be really hesitant to leave Southwest. Like Vette said, i too know to many people that got burned hoping around. I remember a couple years after getting hired at AWA i thought about leaving, i had several thousand 121 PIC and 4 yr. The wisest guys i knew all said the same thing. Unless bankruptcy or liquadation is eminent, don't jump ship. Glad i didn't.

Don't jump ship, and don't notice that 15,000 pilots from the big 3 will retire within 10 years. Consolidation will strengthen the remaining big 3, not weaken them. Looking at the past doesn't mean it will repeat in the future. Instead, just stagnate at SWA. That doesn't seem out of the question, to anyone, even at SWA apparently. Being hired in the first half of a hiring wave like this can reset your career, and the retirements will happen.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[retired guy]

Don`t do it! Stay where you are.

 

[kommutrdog]

It's all a roll of the dice.

Then the ugly girl at the dance smashes into the big drunk texas quarterback, but not without the govt. principle trying to separate them. Now we're banging under the gym bleachers and get to be one of the big 3.

What's next? F'ck if I know. All I do is show up, try not to screw the pooch and make the news, pass my checkrides and go home.


If I were you (original poster) I'd stay put.

LOL !!!!!

Thanks for the laughs. This career can drive a person to drink. Which reminds me... (reaches for gin and tonic).

 

[General Lee]

Don`t do it! Stay where you are.

Yes! Stagnate! Avoid MANDATORY retirement numbers around 15,000. Avoid a variety of flying. And make sure you don't interview and try to get an offer before following the retired guy's advice. Just don't do anything...

Btw, the retired guy does have a point IF you can't get on in the first couple years of hiring. Being in the latter half of a hiring wave isn't prudent.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[StopNTSing]

Just imagine for a moment.

5.5-6 yr FO, early 30s, at SWA.
Still in the bottom 10% (believe it or not.)

Upgrade is a total of 20-21 years.

Morale is getting stinky here.
We've bungled Hawaii, Class 2 nav, our route structure, we're late.
Our CEO is more focused on saving money than growth.
Contract neg. are going nowhere.

Work rules are ok, pay is good.

Given the massive retirements coming, would you consider leaving for AA or Delta??

Why or why not?
Discuss.....

[FONT=&quot]Tough call. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Assuming you aren't harboring a secret lust to fly the really big iron to really far-away places (if so, then why are you here?), then it comes down to career expectations. Which in turn distills out to whether you bet on SWA's scope vs. AA's retirements. Unless we cave in this Sect 6 (and I?m not saying it couldn't happen), ALL SWA flying will continue to be done by SWAPA pilots. No one else can say the same. Between RJs and international code-sharing/joint ventures, all Legacy pilots are still vulnerable to more outsourcing of their jobs. AA/USAir are just starting down the merger path, and will be in for a long period of ugly like we are now experiencing with ATN. As recent deals have shown, 1+1=1.5 with most any merger, and those ?synergies? will offset some of AA/USAir?s upcoming retirements. The Legacies already pretty much go from everywhere to everywhere else, so there?s really not much potential growth left. But it?s a big new world outside the Lower 48 for SWA and when we eventually get out of our own way to send canyon-blue airplanes beyond SJU, then there could be some real serious organic growth again. However, in all likelihood we will buy another airline within the next decade and that will mute much of the potential growth. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Like someone else already said, tell me what the economy does in the next five years and I can tell you which airline to go to.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Good luck.[/FONT]

 

[Remington]

What does a 6yr Swa FO make a yr? How long would it take you to get back to that pay grade?

 

[Wesb737fo]

Hey Beech,

You have been a SWA 6 years and you have over thirty years to go.? Man I wish I had that much time left. How many guys do you have below you (including AT)? I'm the equivalent of mid 2008 and I have 1100 guys below me. I can't make the numbers work to think about going anywhere else but I guess it's not all about money. If you are trying to raise a family that's a tougher call because a mistake has a bigger impact. If you are single and want to be a Captain sooner, different story. Despite my opinion about the SWA/ AT deal, I still like the balance sheet at SWA and the stability it will provide. Overused Cliche Alert! Someone once told me you won't know if you made the right call until you look back after you retire.

 

[Mercyful Fate]

Stay away from Delta...Unless you are cool with Genital "lee" Warts as your dispatcher, or crew scheduling contact...I am still on the fence as to which department she really is in

 

[Scoot 11]

Whatever Scoot. Ahhh, I mean General.

A regional that flies 3500 flights a day with a ton of transcon, that pays higher than your widebody, riverboat jacket wearing, bankruptcy airline. Cheers!

Sure red, I mean scoreboard, I mean canyon blue, or whoever it is you're blowing these days.
Yes, southwest is nothing more than a PFT regional with lousy benefits, no retirement, 1 airplane and 6 legs a day, much like most regionals. Heck, even Republic has 1800 flights a day. And there, at least you don't have to pay for your job, like the crappy regional you work for.
And you might want to check your pay scales junior f/o. Your facts, much like your captain career, aren't even coming close!

 

[Mookie]

Just imagine for a moment.

5.5-6 yr FO, early 30s, at SWA.
Still in the bottom 10% (believe it or not.)

Upgrade is a total of 20-21 years.

Morale is getting stinky here.
We've bungled Hawaii, Class 2 nav, our route structure, we're late.
Our CEO is more focused on saving money than growth.
Contract neg. are going nowhere.

Work rules are ok, pay is good.

Given the massive retirements coming, would you consider leaving for AA or Delta??

Why or why not?
Discuss.....

...had to pay for your type....

 

[Linedriver]

Over the next 14 years Delta will retire 7500 pilots -thats 65% of our current pilot staffing. Be careful though, in this industry you can always live for tomorrow. If I were you I would probably stay put. SWA is still a good place to be.

 

[Tripower455]

This is a tough decision to make. This career is nothing more than a crap shoot.

WN has been a great carrier and a great place to work, but, like stocks, past performance is no guarantee of future performance.

There's been lots of cheese being moved lately, with little or nothing to show for it, particularly for our more junior pilots.

There's lots that has happened recently that, if I were in the OPs shoes (young, in the bottom 10%), would have me seriously considering other options.

The near future retirement numbers at the legacies are staggering and could be a real career windfall for a younger pilot, especially if he/she got hired at the beginning of the boom.

FWIW, I'd at least put some apps in and interview, then run the numbers if I was offered a job.

 

[Phlintstone]

To me it is pretty simple...Are you happy at SWA? If you are then stay. If not, leave. You'll make do financially one way or the other. Only you can answer the question based on your particular set of circumstances.

Phred

 

[Tripower455]

Yes, southwest is nothing more than a PFT regional

SW paid ME for every second of training I've done in 18 years.

with lousy benefits

Really? Please explain.

no retirement

I agree that we could use better retirement. That said, I put more away in a year at WN than I did in 10 years at the commuters.

1 airplane

Last time I checked, we had nearly 600 airplanes.

and 6 legs a day, much like most regionals.

I can't remember the last time I did 6 legs in one day. It's been at least a decade. Heck, I rarely do more than 3 a day. My average 3 day has 6-8 legs, total.

Heck, even Republic has 1800 flights a day. And there, at least you don't have to pay for your job, like the crappy regional you work for.

Really? Republic? Where, like every other regional, you pay for your job with low salary and lousy QOL, every single day from the time you're hired until you get a real job?

And you might want to check your pay scales junior f/o. Your facts, much like your captain career, aren't even coming close!

Ditto. See above.

 

[General Lee]

If you are considering leaving, there is a reason. You can always apply to the big 3 and see what happens. Maybe you will be highly impressed with one of them, and then make the jump. If you do, jump early.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Tripower455]

If you are considering leaving, there is a reason. You can always apply to the big 3 and see what happens. Maybe you will be highly impressed with one of them, and then make the jump. If you do, jump early.


Bye Bye---General Lee

I can't say this too often, but I agree with GL. Mark the day on your calendar.

 

[HowardBorden]

Just imagine for a moment.

5.5-6 yr FO, early 30s, at SWA.
Still in the bottom 10% (believe it or not.)

Upgrade is a total of 20-21 years.

Morale is getting stinky here.
We've bungled Hawaii, Class 2 nav, our route structure, we're late.
Our CEO is more focused on saving money than growth.
Contract neg. are going nowhere.

Work rules are ok, pay is good.

Given the massive retirements coming, would you consider leaving for AA or Delta??

Why or why not?
Discuss.....

Well, if you're based anywhere west of Denver, you are holding 18 days off and enjoying the majority of your weekends at home while making a six figure salary.

Do you want to go back to reserve for half the salary?

Do you want to be at the bottom of the list and distinctly more vulnerable to furlough?

Do you enjoy your job? If not, will less days off for less money make it any better?

If your relatively happy for sure you should stay. If your unhappy with the job will moving to the bottom of the list somewhere else make you more happy?

 

[General Lee]

Well, if you're based anywhere west of Denver, you are holding 18 days off and enjoying the majority of your weekends at home while making a six figure salary.

Do you want to go back to reserve for half the salary?

Do you want to be at the bottom of the list and distinctly more vulnerable to furlough?

Do you enjoy your job? If not, will less days off for less money make it any better?

If your relatively happy for sure you should stay. If your unhappy with the job will moving to the bottom of the list somewhere else make you more happy?

Howie, you keep forgetting the part about 5000 leaving from each Legacy. Not if, but when? Reserve wouldn't be long, and with that type of upward movement a newbie could expect to jump up a plane type or two quickly, getting an even higher pay rate. Don't be so defensive. And, getting on earlier gives some furlough protection. Consolidation has helped somewhat mitigate the furlough risk, although never totally, even at your airline in the future....


Bye Bye---General Lee