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Leave SWA for AA or Delta?

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HowardBorden said:
If your unhappy with the job will moving to the bottom of the list somewhere else make you more happy?
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He's obviously thinking long term.
 
Tejas-Jet said:
"had" to pay for a type ? That has never been a requirement to be a pilot at SWA. If it had been, I would've never been hired.
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Someone paid for it, except your company. That's the point. What's great now is that they finally HAVE TO with the AT 717 guys transitioning. Maybe if you start charging for bags, you can pay for it....


Bye Bye---General Lee
 
BILL LUMBERG said:
They did great.....no question. What's your point?
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Some of them did, but others who retired early have been kicking themselves for years now. I knew a 757 captain who retired early at age 52, and got $400,000 in his lump sum. Between the change to Age 65 and a successful merger, he would have been a mid-level 7ER/A330/765/ captain easily making $200,000 or more the past five years, if not more.

For those guys approaching age 60 in 2004/5 timeframe, retiring early and getting the lump sum truly was a no-brainer. For the guys in their early 50s it was a whole other story.

What I loved hearing was all my fellow F/Os stating something like "I can't see why anyone would stay--I would be out of here in a heartbeat if I could."

Bull...sheet. They all only said that because they wanted everyone above them to retire early so that they could move up. Hey, I wanted the same! But I was honest about it--I was only thinking about me and not conjuring some fake crocodile tears all out of "concern" for the overall well-being of captains who were senior to me.
 
JohnQ said:
Some of them did, but others who retired early have been kicking themselves for years now. I knew a 757 captain who retired early at age 52, and got $400,000 in his lump sum. Between the change to Age 65 and a successful merger, he would have been a mid-level 7ER/A330/765/ captain easily making $200,000 or more the past five years, if not more.

For those guys approaching age 60 in 2004/5 timeframe, retiring early and getting the lump sum truly was a no-brainer. For the guys in their early 50s it was a whole other story.

What I loved hearing was all my fellow F/Os stating something like "I can't see why anyone would stay--I would be out of here in a heartbeat if I could."

Bull...sheet. They all only said that because they wanted everyone above them to retire early so that they could move up. Hey, I wanted the same! But I was honest about it--I was only thinking about me and not conjuring some fake crocodile tears all out of "concern" for the overall well-being of captains who were senior to me.
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Nobody knew what was going to happen with BK. Heck, Parker took a shot at DL. If they had a large lump sum waiting, then the choice was obvious. $400k? I don't know about that. That seems like a personal choice.


Bye Bye---General Lee
 
Back in 09 I had recurrent in Phoenix for LCC, and we had a youngish, fit looking guy who had taken the early retirement from Delta who was teaching the general subjects on the first day. If I remember right, he was doing that more for something to do than anything else. I only remember seeing him that one time though, I don't think he stayed long. A real nice fellow.
 
JohnQ said:
Some of them did, but others who retired early have been kicking themselves for years now. I knew a 757 captain who retired early at age 52, and got $400,000 in his lump sum. Between the change to Age 65 and a successful merger, he would have been a mid-level 7ER/A330/765/ captain easily making $200,000 or more the past five years, if not more.

For those guys approaching age 60 in 2004/5 timeframe, retiring early and getting the lump sum truly was a no-brainer. For the guys in their early 50s it was a whole other story.

.
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AirTran hired a couple of dozen early-retirees from Delta; I have flown with many of them. They had a difficult choice to make- take a lump sum in their 50's (I think for most of them it was more like $1M-$2M) and "retire", or keep flying until age 60 and then take a greatly-reduced PGBC benefit in retirement.

Most of the guys we hired were 76ER Check Airmen. It was a difficult choice for them to make, and, after they made their choice, the playing field changed- Age 60 went away, and they would have had another 5 years to fly, but they had no way to factor this in.

These guys, by the way, have been a real pleasure to fly with; true professionals, they did a great job as FO's, and never tried to run the cockpit, or complain about what happened. I have enjoyed flying with them, and when it's my turn to be an FO again, I hope to do it as well as they did for me. . . . Unless you want to screw things up and tell me how I "won the lottery", then you're on your own. ;)

Regds,
Ty
 
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I had a DO who was early retiree from Delta.. Maybe age 53 when he retired as a widebody Captain....

Became the DO of our 3 plane charter outfit making maybe $80-100K, working paperwork Ops manual type stuff, and also flying a couple times a week.. And home nearly every night.. Piece of cake job...

Probably the single funnest person I've ever flown with... (while he was a good 25 years older than me) The absolute most laid back pilot and a blast on overnights....

Sometimes it's not all about the $$$ if you have your home life set the way you want it... Which he did
 
Tejas-Jet said:
"had" to pay for a type ? That has never been a requirement to be a pilot at SWA. If it had been, I would've never been hired.
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SWA requires a 737 type. We all know that. Personally I think it's hypocritical for people to throw stones at them for that. I remember airlines requiring a Flight Engineer rating. BUT, when you say "I didn't pay for a type", that is a very weak argument. They DO require it, it is a PFT deal that saves them money and denying it just because you happened to have it or the VA paid for it certainly doesn't win the debate on the subject.
 
Dan Roman said:
SWA requires a 737 type. We all know that. Personally I think it's hypocritical for people to throw stones at them for that. I remember airlines requiring a Flight Engineer rating. BUT, when you say "I didn't pay for a type", that is a very weak argument. They DO require it, it is a PFT deal that saves them money and denying it just because you happened to have it or the VA paid for it certainly doesn't win the debate on the subject.
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Dan, I remember airlines requiring the Flight Engineer written, but I don't remember any requiring the actual rating. . . .

Was it this one?


http://farm5.staticflickr.com/4125/5031071201_726fa64d66.jpg

:D

.
 
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Thought I remembered Braniff requiring it, I could be wrong. BUT I remember a lot of people shelling out 5 grand for an FE rating to get an airline job.
 
Dan Roman said:
Thought I remembered Braniff requiring it, I could be wrong. BUT I remember a lot of people shelling out 5 grand for an FE rating to get an airline job.
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Well, clearly you remember back further than I do. I only remember back to the days when they required nepotism or knobs.

:laugh:
 
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Dan Roman said:
SWA requires a 737 type. We all know that. Personally I think it's hypocritical for people to throw stones at them for that. I remember airlines requiring a Flight Engineer rating. BUT, when you say "I didn't pay for a type", that is a very weak argument. They DO require it, it is a PFT deal that saves them money and denying it just because you happened to have it or the VA paid for it certainly doesn't win the debate on the subject.
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Sorry Dan, you are wrong. A 737 type rating is simply a hiring requirement like any other requirement. Most, if not all airlines require somewhere near 1000 hours of PIC turbine experience and that is universally accepted. Many require a 4 year degree just to have the ability to apply! Southwest does not require a degree. I think we all know what requirement is more expensive, but so many are willing to look away from the degree prerequisite as an actual prerequisite.

In the end, those that want to work for SWA may want to buy a type rating in order to increase their odds of a job offer from SWA, while others (like me) may get offered employment without a type rating.
 
mayoplane said:
Definitely leave because you are senior to me!

5+ years at SWA, no regrets for coming here.
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Haha- was thinking the same thing
Too bad he's not a 7 year guy

I have no regrets for coming here either and have been at others-
But I'll say it again, if you aren't into SWA and what we are- and if you don't want to take the leadership role for that- why stay?
First time in a decade+ there are compelling career reasons for leaving

We have lots w/ legacy attitudes who came here only bc it was the highest paying, best contract and could care less about swa culture- AND, I don't judge that- honestly, good on you. But if you're the type that expects the perfect culture will be bestowed onto you while you do nothing towards it. Why stay?

Demographically, that doesn't fit a good idea anymore
For the see able future you won't be the 99-'00 hire who left and got furloughed- you'll have a good career most anywhere
Seniority is still the game though, so I wouldn't mess around- be a student and get in at the beginning- ride the wave- it's been a long time coming, but it's here again
 

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