Leave Airtran for United??

[Rez O. Lewshun]

For a pilot labor group to get to strike is an amazing feat in todays environment. Lets not forget the only major airline to strike in the last 15 years was American Airlines and lets not forget who ordered ( by executive action) them back to work in less than 6 hours on strike. Our Democrat pal BILL CLINTON. So much for the liberals support of the labor unions bull********************.

wrong!!

http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?t=107428

Start with post #33


If we are to be effective we must be informed!

 

[PCL_128]

With all due respect, don't be so quick to cut down your own legs. I don't hear that coming from AMR, UAL, DAL or any CAL guys. I wouldn't be so quick as to create lower expectations for your management and your union. This is the kind of stuff that goes on at Regionals. It should not be happening at the Major level, period.

DAL is working under BK wages. All things being equal, I doubt DAL pilots would settle for their current wages. You guys should be shooting for parity with SWA. They're the airline that best mirrors what you can, and what you've accomplished to this point.

Further, you get what you negotiate. I think that the mentality has to be positive (with some militancy) and the bar has to be set high before getting into the ring with management. Otherwise, you may be schooled into accepting something that's less diserving of your pilots.

You're living in a dream world, my friend. Do you honestly believe that the Bush anti-labor NMB is going to release us if we are demanding SWA+ wages? We'll be lucky to get released in the next couple of years for just demanding DAL wages. The NMB flat-out told the ExpressJet pilots that they would never get released if they didn't back off of their demands for the old CMR+ rates. The Bush NMB doesn't even feel they have to hide their anti-labor bias. As long as there is an anti-labor majority on the NMB, we'll never make the kind of progress that you're looking for. But vote correctly in November, and maybe we can get headed in the right direction.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Follow the UAW example they have been extremly successful in getting better pay and benefits for thier employees over the last 50 years. Here is how the UAW does it; they reach a deal with a single company, then go to the next company and say match it or you will be shutdown and all the new cars being sold will be built someplace else, then they go to the next company and repeat. When the auto companies where rolling in money it was a good deal for all. But over the last 30 years it has eliminated 70% of the union jobs, gave great raise to non-union companies, and now it is concession time. Now ALPA could follow the same path as the UAW and it would be great for 30% of those who still had jobs. This is also great for the non-ALPA airlines that would fly all the passengers when the ALPA pilots were on strike.

So it has to with companies rolling in the money?

When there is more pie to divide its easy! When there is less pie for all it gets contentious...

Who's job is it to ensure profits and revenue?

 

[pilotyip]

the answer

So it has to with companies rolling in the money?

When there is more pie to divide its easy! When there is less pie for all it gets contentious...

Who's job is it to ensure profits and revenue?

Companies that are very profitable are more likely to share with their employees because it is good for business, look at NJ, SWA, FedEx, UPS; marginal companies can not be as generous. The company has to balance between revenue and expenses. BTW you have to have labor and manamgent to have an airline, there has to be a balance. It is not one sided

 

[PCL_128]

<font size="2">Companies that are very profitable are more likely to share with their employees because it is good for business

You should be a stand-up comedian. That was some funny sh--!

 

[MINIME]

You're living in a dream world, my friend. Do you honestly believe that the Bush anti-labor NMB is going to release us if we are demanding SWA+ wages? We'll be lucky to get released in the next couple of years for just demanding DAL wages. The NMB flat-out told the ExpressJet pilots that they would never get released if they didn't back off of their demands for the old CMR+ rates. The Bush NMB doesn't even feel they have to hide their anti-labor bias. As long as there is an anti-labor majority on the NMB, we'll never make the kind of progress that you're looking for. But vote correctly in November, and maybe we can get headed in the right direction.

I hope it's not a dream. But I agree with your sentiment on the NMB. I've been preaching it for a while now, this administration does NOT favor labor. It's beyond me why many of us on this board fail to realize that. I guess many of us cast our votes based on feelings and not our wallets.

On your second point however, XJT battled for a long time against management and the NMB. But in the end their persistance paid off. XJT arguably got one of the best Regional contracts in the industry. Why can't something similar be accomplished at the Major level? My point was merely that a feeling of low expectations among your group, is already a disadvantage before you step up to the plate with management.

You guys have alot more going for you than you give yourself credit for. Not too many pilot groups have removed their whole MECs before. That tells me that atleast some, among your group are very motivated to get a favorable outcome for your pilots. If the majority your pilots participate, vote, volunteer, and back your union, the outcome should be a good one. You shouldn't expect or settle for less.

 

[PCL_128]

On your second point however, XJT battled for a long time against management and the NMB. But in the end their persistance paid off. XJT arguably got one of the best Regional contracts in the industry. Why can't something similar be accomplished at the Major level?

What happened at XJT is exactly what I'm suggesting that we accomplish. Achieving SWA+1 is impossible with this NMB, just as achieving CMR+1 was impossible for the XJT pilots, but we can achieve something in between as the XJT pilots did. SWA+1 isn't reachable with this NMB, but something between DAL and SWA is. I'm not suggesting that we don't try for SWA+1. Of course we should. But I'm telling you that we'll never get a release from the NMB with those demands.

 

[Lear70]

You should be a stand-up comedian. That was some funny sh--!

Agreed!

 

[sluggo]

Go to Mesa and you'll upgrade fast. You could be basesd in paradise. Complete and total poverty level income......but at least you'll be surfing.

 

[Andy]

Either way flying the 170 would be cheaper than operating the 737-500.

Not likely. Have you crunched the CASM numbers? Did you account for the fact that the 170 can't carry much/any freight?