Leave AirTran for CAL?

[LUalum]

Just got a call today for a CAL interview next month. Been at FL for 3 years now and upgrade hopefully is around the corner. I'm trying not to get blinded by my big jet syndrom and make a cold rational decision what to do should the interview go my way. Oh yeah, just found out my wife and I are expecting our first so we'll be down to just one income, which as I understand it is pretty low first year at CAL. It would be a shorter commute to IAH than ATL though. Same time zone even.

Is 33K take home sound about right first year?
How long to get IAH on any airplane?
Should UAL and CAL merge what are likely outcomes for a new guy, HomeDepot job or what? Is a merger likely?
Are commuteable schedules available, is the PBS a QOL improver or not?
Is the sim ride now in a 737, what model?
When is medical ins available to a newhire?

I did look at the archives on this subject but most info was 2005 era, so fresh gouge would be appreciated.

 

[Ex737Driver]

Tough choice...........Got a TA, possible upgrade soon, new kid, low first year pay at CAL with out-of-pocket medical expenses first 6 months. But possible better career earnings potential, international, different aircraft, quick upgrade. Do the pros and cons list. It has happen before if you look back at a few of our newhire classes and I'm sure it will again.

 

[Ty Webb]

Well, first of all, congratulations on the offer from CAL.

I would say that if your lifestyle allows you to start over, CAL sounds pretty good. As a current AAI CA (6th yr) I would say that if you are near upgrade, then you might want to wait to see what the shakeout does around here.

AAi is at a turning point. Are we going to hold out on scope? I sure hope so . . . . all AIrTran planes flown at 717/737 rates would be a start.

Clear Scope language with no outsourcing unless thorugh a LOA, preserving some QOL and being flexible on others . . . otherwise, no one will want to stay, and it will turn into a "shelter for battered pilots". Who wants to be a part of that? I sure don't.

 

[instructordude]

Have you thought about Fedex? They are hiring.

 

[IAHERJ]

I left Airtran in 2005 after almost 3 years and an upgrade class staring me in the face. I couldn't be more happy. It worked for me but I can understand the low first year pay situation(yes 33K sounds right) with a newborn etc. will be difficult. You can get to IAH very soon if you are assigned the 737. It takes a while longer on the 757/767 but I don't think they are doing much hiring on that equipment right now. PM me if you have any specific questions. I would be happy to talk to you about this decision.

IAHERJ

 

[Yuppyguppy]

Go to CAL...no brainer...been there and done it.

 

[COpilot]

Congrats, on baby, and call.

1. If big airplanes are not big deal great,

2. I am very anti commute for peace of mind, so ask yourself that question.

3. I still think AAA is well placed, and making CA would still be awhile away over here.

4. He!l, it's such a crap shoot, you can only make the best decision for yourself given the information on that day; then go foward not looking back.

 

[whymeworry?]

Bear in mind, with a young on one the way, you WILL have to pay cobra after you leave Airtran. The reason is that any supplemental medical I called told me pregnancy was not covered. Then again, since your wife is already pregnant, perhaps she will be covered with a "pre-existing condition" by any new insurance.

Cobra is a joke. You can get supplemental medical insurance for around $100/ mo. But the bigger joke is that CAL doesn't provide insurance for th first 6 months.

 

[Ex737Driver]

There are several other choices other than COBRA with a few having been listed on different threads in the past.

 

[Heavy Set]

Go to CAL...no brainer...been there and done it.

When is CAL going to merge with United? That sure will be fun for CAL pilots if it happens. Gotta take that into consideration.

 

[Palomino]

your focus should be your immediate family concerns. CAL will not give you the short-term security that you need for medical purposes. i'd say CAL is a decent place for you, but the call came at the wrong time. however, they may be able to adjust your interview/class to your needs. call them and see what you can do. if they don't understand, then you probably don't wanna work there. i've found CAL to be very accomodating to family needs, but i'm not on probation either.

i'd suggest pursuing places that can offer you more as a newhire since that is of immediate concern. SWA, FEDEX, DAL etc offer nice first year pay and medical from day one.

it bothers me that this is part of your consideration. actually ASHAMED is the proper word. there's no reason whatsoever for CAL not to offer day one medical benefits for our pilots. look for changes in the near future to this policy.

i can only hope that we start caring about day one employees as much as we do 30 yr employees sometime soon. it's a troubled corporate policy that deserves maximum attention.

best of luck to you and your family.

 

[Charlie Brown]

All good points up to now. I will throw what I know into the mix for your consideration.

A good friend of mine left AT about a year ago for CAL. He had not been there as long as you had, but he was a lineholder on the 73, had a decent commute (as commutes go), and was making livable wages and had insurance. He has 3 small kids, and his wife does not work. He could not be more happy with his decision to go to CAL. They got a home equity loan to make the first year pay work and afford COBRA. He commutes now via car so his flexibility in trips is greatly improved over what he could do at AT. His overall impression of AT's culture was not particularly good, but he did enjoy the crews he worked with. He says it is apples to oranges comparing the two.

I think it all boils down to what you want, and where you want to live. My only advice is if you want CAL (and I am assuming you do since you bothered to apply, etc.) don't let a short-term problem (no insurance, low first year pay, new baby (which is awesome btw-you're going to love being a Dad, congrats!)) keep you from your goal/dreams. If you can be happy at AT forever, great. Either way I would go to the CAL interview, if you decide it is the right thing for you and your family, I would take the first available class. My buddy with three kids has made it work, I would bet you could too. Best of luck to you and Happy Father's Day!

 

[catIIIc]

When is CAL going to merge with United? That sure will be fun for CAL pilots if it happens. Gotta take that into consideration.

Why does everybody always think the CAL pilots will get a raw deal in a Merger? I have no ill will towards UAL but who has A/C on Order, who is making money? By no means do I expect a wind fall or even a better deal then UAL guys, but I do expect a fair deal for both sides.

Now for those who will say "look at the USAir/AWA deal" IMHO it is apples and Oranges. CAL and UAL both have Widebodies and large international network, both CAL and UAL bring alot to the table.

One thing is for sure if anyone will get a bad deal if we merge it will the employees of both companies.

 

[Yuppyguppy]

Yep...Glenn Tilton and his cronies will get there

 

[Yuppyguppy]

woops...tens of millions and then CAL mgmt will run the whole show. My guess were about 2 years away from the whole thing...and yes the employees always get screwed

 

[BID]

I know of an AirTran pilot that just finished ground school. Had about two years at AirTran.

It looks like there are a couple of guys that have come over. I will say the flying here is excellent. There are many options when it comes to flight destinations and equipment.

Good luck with your choice

 

[RIDETHELIGHTING]

At this point do what is best for your family. When the baby comes it is going to be a little crazy around the house.

 

[mnboyev]

Not being smart...but what is the big draw to CAL?...I guess if you are 33 or younger it may be a good deal...ie international flying.... really just curious.....I remember when everyone thought CAL was the worst....??? What gives ?? I know at AAI MCO sucks...but our CPO is very cordial and 99 percent of our line pilots are regular guys just chillin and putting in their time... Days off at AAI are typical narrow body schedules.... 15 days off at 82 hrs credit... Is CAL that much different ? Just curious.

Sorry..I don't get the whole send me to Guam or Serwark thing..... Not good to be an airline gypsy..

 

[jonjuan]

Not being smart......but our CPO is very cordial and 99 percent of our line pilots are regular guys just chillin and putting in their time...

No, you're not being smart. Regular guys just chillin and putting in time? Sounds like fun.

 

[sleeves]

Not being smart...but what is the big draw to CAL?...I guess if you are 33 or younger it may be a good deal...ie international flying.... really just curious.....I remember when everyone thought CAL was the worst....??? What gives ?? I know at AAI MCO sucks...but our CPO is very cordial and 99 percent of our line pilots are regular guys just chillin and putting in their time... Days off at AAI are typical narrow body schedules.... 15 days off at 82 hrs credit... Is CAL that much different ? Just curious.

Sorry..I don't get the whole send me to Guam or Serwark thing..... Not good to be an airline gypsy..

Lot’s of variety with good movement. I have been here only two years and will be very close to holding Capt. on the next bid. I can either hold out as a 737 F/O and have a good schedule, possibly bid Capt., Bid 75/76 and see Europe, or Bid 77/78 and fly the big A/C.
While Cal does have its problems; First year pay, Bases, 83-85 hires. It is somewhat stable, this week anyway, with decent MGT.

 

[Britpilot]

Lot’s of variety with good movement. I have been here only two years and will be very close to holding Capt. on the next bid. I can either hold out as a 737 F/O and have a good schedule, possibly bid Capt., Bid 75/76 and see Europe, or Bid 77/78 and fly the big A/C.
While Cal does have its problems; First year pay, Bases, 83-85 hires. It is somewhat stable, this week anyway, with decent MGT.

I have to agree with everthing you say except the last three words. Larry is a moron, Gordo was much better.

 

[bendover]

if the age 60 thing go's through it will really affect the upgrades at Cont. alot of people will not have that quick upgrade they were planning on. I also believe that those hired on now have missed the peak of hiring and those getting on now are back fill for those fo's that will upgrade in this wave of hiring/aircraft deliveries/retirements.

 

[IAHERJ]

If the age 60 thing goes through, it will effect many arlines including AirTran. I'd much rather have to spend a few more years in the right seat of a 757/767 or 777 making 6 figures while I wait for CA than a narrowbody anywhere else. That is one of the options that make CAL attractive over a LCC.

IAHERJ

 

[bendover]

airtran has about 12-18 age 60 retirements per year the next 5 yrs. Continental has a couple of thousand age 60 retirements the next 5 yrs.time frame. After the age 60 rule go's out the window , Continental will probably be the MOST affected airline out there. try adding 5 years to your upgrade. I'd rather take a 3-4 yr captain slot to being a fo for 6-8yrs. Its all about the money not the piece of tin your sitting in.

 

[CAL EWR B737]

airtran has about 12-18 age 60 retirements per year the next 5 yrs. Continental has a couple of thousand age 60 retirements the next 5 yrs.time frame. After the age 60 rule go's out the window , Continental will probably be the MOST affected airline out there. try adding 5 years to your upgrade. I'd rather take a 3-4 yr captain slot to being a fo for 6-8yrs. Its all about the money not the piece of tin your sitting in.

Got to raise the BS flag on this one. Yes there will be a reduction in retirements if age 60 goes to 65 no doubt. But it will not bring movement to a complete stop. I don't have numbers in front of me but we lose a lot of guys over age 50 to medicals (most temporary and some permanent) what do you think that number is going to be after age 60? My bet medicals will go through the roof.

Secondly most of our senior pilots have a significant amount of sick time and they can't take it with them how much you want to bet those over sixty will call in sick almost as much as they show up, this already occurred when we had all of our F/E's crewed by over age 60 before 9/11. How much do you think that will effect staffing?

Lastly not every pilot is going to stay to age 65. Some will but many will leave after a year, two or three. So between medicals, early retirements and sick leave you will still see significant movement, granted not as much as you would with age 60. I don't understand your math? Your retirements at Air Tran are measly or even considered pathetic but since you only have a handful of pilots retiring in the next few years (pre age 60 rule change) and we have a significant amount of our seniority list somehow changing age 60 will put your guys in a better situation please explain?

Additionally we have currently have 46 wide bodies all fairly new. If we take delivery of all 60 787's (25 firm/35 options) our wide body fleet will be over 100. If we come close or break the 300 dollar hour mark for 12 year 777/787 CA's a 787/777 FO will pay so much these FO seats will go far senior to the narrow body captain. Due to the mission of these aircraft and being crewed on just about each flight with one captain and three FO's what do you think that will do to our staffing and subsequent movement since these seat will pay just about what a narrow body Captain makes?

Hey it's a crap shoot all the way around. Will we reach our goals for contract 08 I sure hope so but I could be wrong. Personal choice three, four five legs narrowbody domestic flying or long haul international with 18 to 22 days a month off?

 

[COpilot]

bendover,

Congrats!!! you are the next flightinfo person to blow information out his/her a$$ without knowing or checking the facts before they write something as the truth.

The fact is there are 1,234 retirements on the books over the next 5 years at CO.

Opinion around the union and our forum (not fact), puts the estimate not at 5 years because of age 60, but closer to a 3 year delay. However as I said on the first page, I think AAI is a good bet for this person to stay with.

 

[STL717]

Where are we in the current economic cycle? Will the economy head for a recession in the near future resulting in furloughs at most airlines?

Starting a new job at what turns out to be the wrong time can be devastating.

 

[PCL_128]

Sorry..I don't get the whole send me to Guam or Serwark thing..... Not good to be an airline gypsy..

Agreed. Taking a job at a legacy that's well past the beginning of its hiring cycle when you're about to upgrade at a profitable company and start making $120k is just a bad move. I'm having flashbacks to the 99'-01' time frame when guys were leaving places like AirTran, SWA, FedEx, and UPS to take a "glamorous" jobs at one of the legacies. Most of those guys spent five years on furlough and will go back to a job that pays half of what it did when they were hired. If they had stayed at their original carrier, they'd have been making well into the six figures for several years with great schedules.

 

[bestpilot]

Starting a new job at what turns out to be the wrong time can be devastating.

Duude, pickin yer nose at da wrong time can liek be bad too bro, like Im drivin in Fiat an stuff, goin ta werk an like I gotz this like nassy ole hard boogie like way up in there an stuff. Ty Guy, yknow what I'm tawkin bouts cause like I gets em all da time. Dude, Im like diggin like way up there and liek I thinks I gotz it and the like, gush!!!!!

Dude, It's freaking bleedin like wehn da shower aint like terned off all da way and stuff.

Drip drip drip, freaking all over my clean shirt an stuff. I likes gets da napkins from my McD's and stuff, and like jam it all up in there. Duuude, it like still is bleedin an stuff. I likes go to da freeakin Jeewelll Osco an stuff, an likez buy a tampn , and like rip it outz right there in da store an like jam it all up in my nose. Awwww yeahhh, mooooeeee better. Then like manager cat sees me an stuff and like says, "Bro, can I like get you somtin?" "Yeah, bro, a freaking maxi pad an like a can a dat ole club soda, like freaking pronto, mee amigo!"

He gits it fer me, and like I'm freaking cleanin my shirt right there in freaking ailse 12!

Dude says, who you werkin fer? I likes wantz ta tell him da Tranny, but like I figgure like maybe dat aint so good fer dat ole compnee image, so likez I sayz, "bro I werk fer Contnental and stuff".

Sorry, but wehn you gotz a tampon wedged all up yer nostrill an stuff, sometimez its jus embarassin, like wehn Ty Guy's new babe was like really a dude and stuff.

 

[Lear70]

ROFLMAO!!!

I love how you can take a thread and just completely blow it out of the water with some random string of thought, yet tie it back in. Nice. :beer:

Incidentally, I don't know if I'd leave AAI for CAL right now either. 3 years into a traditional 5-7 year hiring cycle that will hiccup slightly with the age 65 increase. True that you will fly heavy metal international, and if you want to do that, go for it. I'd love to, but I only have a 3 hour butt unless I'm reading a good book and I'd go crazy if I got stuck with some anal retentive CA that wouldn't let me open a good Dean Koontz novel about an hour out towards Orly.

Incidentally, I only fly 2-3 legs a day and get 16-17 days off as a relatively junior guy here at AAI. The Quality Of Life ain't bad... hope the T.A. dies so it can stay this way until we get a better deal.