Learjet 45 getting Garmin 3000

[LJ45]

One Learjet 45 sim is down in Dallas for retrofit to Garmin 3000, you know what that means! I wonder if it will be the same type rating, with such a radical change in the cockpit?

 

[Fr8DoggyStyle]

Are you sure it's not the G5000? I thought the G3000 was for part 23 airplanes.

 

[LJ45]

Are you sure it's not the G5000? I thought the G3000 was for part 23 airplanes.

you are correct, my bad it is the 5000 !

 

[bizjet800]

It already had a nice avionics suite, is the 5000 that much better?

 

[Fr8DoggyStyle]

Well the Primus 1000 that's in it now is about 20 years old. A lot has improved since then. It currently is way behind it's competitors when it comes to avionics.

 

[Tgaug6300]

No doubt. Finally onboard charts and Nexrad. It is kinda like buying a new Mercedes with an 8 track player in it.

 

[TRBojet]

I heard this when I went through initial a few weeks ago but they didn't say what system they were going with. They did say that it will still be the same type rating. I know nothing about the Garmin system but I can't imagine it's too similar to the Honeywell. I agree with Tgaug: awesome airplane with average EFIS and an 8-track for an FMS. At least we're getting the UNS-1E/w.

 

[Problow]

Great update for the airplane but I think Bombardier is making a big mistake with putting this in the Lear 45. I am sure it is a great system, I have used many different Garmin products and I love them. However, the problem I see is not having similar avionics across different classes of their jets. I know that most manufactures change avionics in different models but I think that they would benefit if they would put a system that is similar to what they plan for the Challenger and Global products so that crews can switch between airplanes and be pretty consistent in system operation. Chose I product line and stick with it.

 

[CorpCaptain]

Might have to do with the fact that they are moving one of those 45 sims out of Bombardier. Think it is supposed to be gone within 2 months. The Phenom series aircraft have had the Garmin and i've heard nothing but bad things about it from IP's with both Phenom and CAE.

 

[SDCFI]

I heard about a month ago the FAA was standing firm on making it a new type rating. Maybe they came to their senses...after all they are here to help! I too would like to see the Pro Line Fusion to make it common with the 85.

 

[rausda27]

Accoring to the Supervisor, Field Service Bombardier Customer Response Center (CRC) Wichita that I spoke with today, they have not announced ANY changes to the Avionics suite for the Lear 45 series. I think this is just a rumor.

Stuck with the primus boys and gals.

 

[BoilerUP]

Of course they haven't ANNOUNCED any changes - doesn't mean changes aren't in progress behind the scenes.

As far as Phenom avionics...I haven't heard ANYTHING bad about the G1000 system in any aircraft, and specifically nothing bad about "Embraer Prodigy".

I too think Fusion would be a better fit, but I'm just a pilot.

 

[rausda27]

Of course they haven't ANNOUNCED any changes - doesn't mean changes aren't in progress behind the scenes.

As far as Phenom avionics...I haven't heard ANYTHING bad about the G1000 system in any aircraft, and specifically nothing bad about "Embraer Prodigy".

I too think Fusion would be a better fit, but I'm just a pilot.

No STC according to the FAA either.

 

[BoilerUP]

No STC according to the FAA either.

Again, not surprising, considering the G5000 isn't expected to be certified until early 2012. Hard to have an STC for an avionics system that hasn't even been certified yet...

 

[jross]

At NBAA this year Lear had a 45 in the static display with a small Garmin unit mounted on the yoke. It was hard wired into the airplane, displayed charts and had XM weather. The Lear sales rep told us they where waiting on the stc to be finalized and should soon see in new production airplanes.

 

[2-o'sinGoose]

LR45 Garmin 5000 is a fact... Don't be surprised when the 680 gets it too.. as well as winglets.

 

[BoilerUP]

Sovereign needed to get PL21 three years ago.

Wouldn't surprise me to see it get the G5000, but winglets? Would that wing really benefit from them?

 

[spxdriver]

Sovereign needed to get PL21 three years ago.

Wouldn't surprise me to see it get the G5000, but winglets? Would that wing really benefit from them?

The winglets probably don't quite look like you're thinking. And yes, it will benefit from them.

What do you believe is wrong with the Honeywell Epic that it should have been replaced by ProLine 21?

 

[BoilerUP]

I figured elliptical winglets ala the X...what are you hearing they'll look like?

As far as avionics, I don't personally have any experience with Epic.

That said, I have heard MANY Sovereign operators report MANY issues with their EPIC avionics, both in person and on the internet. Database update issues, poor component reliability, course intercept over/undershoots, and just plain working well. The recommendation that EPIC Phase 5 aircraft not fly coupled ILS/LPV approaches, for example - completely unacceptable for a $17M+ aircraft. Which is really odd, since EPIC seems to work well in Gulfstream/Falcon/Embraer products.

I haven't heard of similar chronic avionics/autoflight issues in PL21-equipped aircraft.

When you hear how great the Sovereign is EXCEPT for avionics so many times, from so many different pilots, it seems like a change would be in order...<shrug>

 

[spxdriver]

I figured elliptical winglets ala the X...what are you hearing they'll look like?

I've seen them, and they are not elliptical, or anything close to it.

That said, I have heard MANY Sovereign operators report MANY issues with their EPIC avionics, both in person and on the internet. Database update issues, poor component reliability, course intercept over/undershoots, and just plain working well. The recommendation that EPIC Phase 5 aircraft not fly coupled ILS/LPV approaches, for example - completely unacceptable for a $17M+ aircraft. Which is really odd, since EPIC seems to work well in Gulfstream/Falcon/Embraer products.

There's definitely a certain order required to have the most success loading databases, I agree. That said though, I've had to only restart a database load on our airplane one time. For those that are having problems with the database loading, be sure to use the latest version of Cessna's DMU loader program.

Can't say that I've had problems with component reliability.

As far as the intercepts, well, it's not perfect, but I've never seen it go more than 1/4 scale, and it always corrects after 10-15 seconds. IMO, not a big deal.

I really have no complaints about the Epic avionics. They're not perfect, but I'd say that overall, they work well.

There's no such recommendation that phase 5 aircraft not fly ILS and LPV approaches - don't believe everything that you read online. For the reality, see below:

LPV approach procedures are not affected by this condition and may be conducted normally in accordance with existing AFM limitations and procedures.

Autopilot coupled ILS approaches may also be conducted, however they should be limited to a modified autopilot Minimum Use Height (MUH) of 700 feet AGL. The glideslope deviation display should be monitored, and autopilot disconnected if a sustained glideslope deviation greater than 1 dot is observed. Category II ILS approaches should not be conducted.

Flight Director only ILS approaches may be conducted in accordance with existing AFM limitations and procedures. The flight director command should be cross-checked with the glideslope deviation display, and flight director indications disregarded if a sustained glideslope deviation greater than 1 dot is observed while following the flight director guidance.

When you hear how great the Sovereign is EXCEPT for avionics so many times, from so many different pilots, it seems like a change would be in order...<shrug>

There definitely are better avionics packages coming out than Epic is today. However, I don't think that it deserves the bad reputation that it sometimes gets. IMO, the worst part of having Honeywell avionics isn't the equipment that's installed in the airplane, but rather having to deal with Honeywell on the phone for billing, changing subscriptions, etc.