Learjet 45 crashes in Telluride

[goodgig]

If we are going to speculate, let's speculate on the forces of nature that can produce such richard craniums like 100 - 1/2. What ever happened to you?

And dback, did the individual you mention steal your spouse while you were on a trip? Deets man, we need deets.

 

[Flying Biker]

The clown who was the captain on this flight (XXXXXXX) was convicted of a DUI he received while on a company trip! This guy is the reason we have background checks, NDR checks and PRIA.

Boy that's real classy dropping the mans name like that on a public forum. Especially since there is no hint that alcohol played even the slightest role in this accident. I have flown with plenty of pilots who, while not flying, like to drink and some even drink heavily. But in the plane, they are good pilots and SOBER. On the flip side, I have flown with pilots who don't drink a drop and make lousy decisions even in VFR conditions.

Making implied accusations are uncalled for and IMHO bad form.

 

[AviateYou]

The previously mentioned pilot was the PNF and the PF was another Captain. I think we'd all be better served when the report comes out before we point the finger.

 

[100-1/2]

Wow. Seems this is how we got us an immigrant named Barry Soetoro in the White House. No one really wants to consider the question(s). They want to attack, smear and lob insult at the people posing the problem. Real classic, very professional and not unexpected in this forum.

Every six months and 12 months for some, you get on a plane fly to Simuflite, Flight Safety and others. You sit through CRM/ADM classroom instruction as an aspect of your recurrent training and discuss a tragic accident where a pilot or flight crew fail to recognize the error chain and break it before an event such as Telluride. I have never been to recurrent where anyone said of a recent newsworthy accident, "We are not going to speculate, discuss or acknowledge that accident, because it is under investigation and we don't comment until the Final Report is published." That is crap and you all know it. I guarantee, Bombardier is talking, telling, learning and teaching about everything gleaned from CAE to date and to every customer that walks through the doors, emphasizing the differences between serial numbers, SB's and operational characteristics to their clients. Most of all, I have never heard anyone trounce on an instructor teaching CRM/ADM for his personal conjecture of a particular tragedy whether or not final findings were published. But you do it here, and in spades.

My query injected mild humor into the question of briefing the approach before going into the airport. But I guess the REAL professionals here at FI don't brief approaches in real life; outside the sim once or twice a year. If you did, you would have found the humor as it were intended. Instead, attack the questioner. Slander kill and destroy him so the question is without merit. And if he is dead, we don't have to answer. Nice.

You didn't get that great job with excellent equipment and maintenance because you did everything perfect except, you briefed an approach procedure with meticulous precision including the section clearly spelling out, the category aircraft you were interviewing for was not approved for the procedure. Instead, you muddled around until Segrave called, needing a "Street Captain". Surprisingly you never cracked an FAR or discussed TERPS in their interview. And a Simulator/Proficiency Check? Yeah, right. You drink, smoke, have a good handicap and short game; you are "in" like flynn, particularly if the dispatch/sales girls think you are hot. Good luck with that.

100-1/2

 

[Hoss]

Anyone know if the plane is still at TEX?

 

[DBacks]

My original message was deleted, bummer.

And I was not implying that alcohol may have been related to this accident, I was just pointing out that this is the kind of person we're dealing with here. I would be very suprised if this guy keeps his certificates.

And as far as speculation goes, I think that when the final report is out, it will be very close to the opinions of the speculators in this thread. Bottom line is they should not have attempted to go in there in those conditions. Cheers.

 

[bizjet800]

THey should shut down that airport once and for all! The runway is shaped like the Rose Bowl. I have been there once and I won't be back, CAVU or not.

 

[avbug]

There's nothing wrong with Telluride airport.

A poor carpenter blames his tools.

Probably just as well that you don't go back.

--You probably don't want to hear this, but they tow gliders out of there with a Cessna 150. The Cessna has no problem doing it...but you do?

 

[moonlight]

I remember buying my first "KTEX" shirt a few years ago, the one that said, "Most planes fly at 9078', we land".

I've always worn that shirt with pride, I considered it a minor rite of passage as a corp pilot.

 

[bizjet800]

There's nothing wrong with Telluride airport.

A poor carpenter blames his tools.

Probably just as well that you don't go back.

--You probably don't want to hear this, but they tow gliders out of there with a Cessna 150. The Cessna has no problem doing it...but you do?

I can live with that Avbug! And you are right, reading useless info about Cessnas and gliders at TEX, I don't want to hear it! RING RING, hold on, the village is calling....

 

[avbug]

Useless information about a Cessna 150 towing gliders out of TEX...but it's beyond your capabilities...perhaps why it's useless to you. You've been beat out by a Cessna 150. Never the less, you believe the airport should be shut down "once and for all."

This, because you're not up to the task...the same task a beginning pilot in a little Cessna 150 can handle...and thousands of other pilots also handle in high performance equipment, every year.

 

[bizjet800]

So I am supposed to be impressed that a pilot in a
C-152 can "do it?" The village keeps calling for you Avbug!

 

[avbug]

Of course you're not supposed to be impressed. You're supposed to be embarassed that what you find dangerous and impossible is handled by a little old underpowered Cessna 152. You think the airport should be shut down forever because...*fill in your favorite excuse here*...and it's beyond you.

Impressed? No. You really ought to be embarassed...but given your observations thus far, it's unlikely you'll manage that, either.

As stated before, a poor carpenter blames his tools. You blame the airport. There's nothing wrong with the airport...just the pilot who would see it shut down.

THAT is decidedly NOT impressive.

 

[Hung Start]

Now,,,,children,,,,,,,

 

[can99]

they tow gliders out of there with a Cessna 150

Any one with HALF a brain realizes you cannot tow a glider with a C150 !

You really a pilot avbug!

 

[avbug]

I don't fly the 150 out of Telluride...but then I'm not the one calling for the airport to be shutdown forever, either.

Many pilots regularly fly in and out of there without heartburn...just one here has whined about it.

The Cessna 150 flies out of there regularly, towing gliders; it's based there, as are the sailplanes...and it's a daily activity.

Any one with HALF a brain realizes you cannot tow a glider with a C150 !

Grow the other half, and you'll realize that while you may not be able to tow a glider with a Cessna 150...it's certainly done regularly by people with complete brains...including those operating out of Telluride.

 

[bizjet800]

You see Avbug, they're called aircraft limitations. My Gulfstream, and every other jet I have flown, says there is a +-2% runway gradient allowed. Whomever sliced TEX into that moutain did so with "fuzzy math" that somehow proved <2%. Come to think of it, the Rose Bowl is the same way! But someday you'll learn, or perhaps not--the cemetery could always use
another spineless yesman like yourself! You keep going there and bring your lunch to cheer on that super 152 glider tow that you are so fond of.

 

[ditchpilot]

We fly in and out of KTEX on a regular basis. It is not my favorate airport but it does not need to be closed. You have to be ahead of your airplane and to be man enough to go to your alternate when weather (celing, visabilaty and wind) exceed your personal limits. Since we fly a cat. D aircraft we are limited to VFR we also avoid X-wind over15kts.

 

[Buckeye]

They are doing a $52 million dollar revamp of the airport and runway. Runway will be level and there will be overuns with that crushed concrete stuff. It is supposed to be closed at some point for a few months during this project.

 

[avbug]

You see Avbug, they're called aircraft limitations. My Gulfstream, and every other jet I have flown, says there is a +-2% runway gradient allowed. Whomever sliced TEX into that moutain did so with "fuzzy math" that somehow proved <2%. Come to think of it, the Rose Bowl is the same way! But someday you'll learn, or perhaps not--the cemetery could always use
another spineless yesman like yourself!

I've flown corporate aircraft into KTEX many times, as have thousands of other pilots...we're all able and do it without worry, and do it legally. Everybody it would seem, except for you.

Go figure.

If your limitation is 2.0%...where exactly is your "fuzzy math?" Runway gradient on 09 from the midpoint to the end is 1.5%, with gradient on 27 midpoint to end of 1.7%. You find these numbers in excess of 2%, then?

Forget the little cessna...even though it does with ease what you find to be a daunting task. Forget the thousands of pilots who do it with ease in turbojet and turbopropeller equipment. Forget the fact that the airport is served by a scheduled Part 121 operation. Forget the fact that the field is easily within the 2% limitation that you've cited. Forget the fact that you're wrong on every count. Forget the fact that the runway gradient is being reduced even more by improvements that are presently in progress.

You go right on fearing that airfield (and calling for it's closure) while thousands of others conduct daily, safe operations throughout the year...keep your head buried in the sand, and satisfy yourself with platitudes and calls for the airport's closure...simply because such a simple, popular, busy location is beyond you. You make it safer for everyone else, the farther away you stay.