Latest on skywest/Coex

[Mookie]

smf emb base...small but still there.

mookie

 

[Vorleron]

The only thing I'm not understanding is why the Express people can't stay at Skywest (or Commutair) if they want to when Express recalls.

It's not like I wouldn't want to go back to Express, but it would be nice to have the option. It would also make going to Skywest feel more like a "career enhancing experience" knowing that all the hard work and positve attitude might possibly mean something in the future, however small that chance might be.

(Instead of just something to do to get a paycheck, accruing no useful seniority, until Express gets enough Kopectate to get the $hit moving again!)

I don't see how CAL paying for our training at Skywest, and then recalling us and paying for our training at Express again in less than a year could benifit them, particularly when they seem to have mainline pilots coming out of their ears. You would think they would be glad to get rid of us?

As I said, I don't understand why we don't at least have the option...but as usual I might be wrong and probably am...

 

[Bluto]

Vorleron, I'm sorry, I just have to rip on you for a minute.

"...knowing that all the hard work and positve attitude might possibly mean something in the future."
Hey, you had me going for a minute there. I thought you were serious! No offense, but wherever you go your hard work and positive attitude mean very little as far as career enhancement. You are a number. Do you think if you'd been just a little more positive you could have avoided the furlough?

"...and then recalling us and paying for our training at Express again in less than a year." Recalls in less than a year? Now I KNOW you're joking! Whatever gave you the idea that recalls would start in less than a year? Anything you hear about recalls is subject to change at any time. There were people who had the letters in their hands only to have class cancelled. Now there are rumors of more furloughs floating around. I'd plan on spending some time at Skywest if you're going.

I do agree though. It'd be nice to have the opportunity to stay at SkyWest. I guess we'll see what happens with that.

Sorry if I was a little harsh, I'm just amazed at the optimism from some people. Guess I'm just jealous. Good luck at Skywest.

 

[NEDude]

I was under the impression that Coex guys could stay at Commutair if they wished.

 

[Vorleron]

Bluto, in defense, "hard work and attitude" I mean in a training cycle, and while on probation. We all know what happens to that when you hit that big second year pay!

And, as for recalls, probability dictates that the longer your furloughed the closer you are to recalls up to 5 years at which point you will not be recalled... Seriously though, Express is saying March, 2004. So that's where I got the "less than 1 year, but I do know they might as well have said "5 years from next tuesday..."

The rumor is that the Commutair people HAVE TO GO BACK. I wonder if they knew that and wonder how Express plans on enforcing it. If you just resign from Express before the recalls, and stay where your at, what can they do?

Or to put it another way: I know how a company can get rid of you, but I don't see how they can force you to come back. Last I checked I was hired, not BOUGHT! (They can't fire me, slaves have to be shot!)

 

[WmuBronco]

I too wish we had the option of staying, although depending on how good this new so-called "enhanced flow-through" turns out, it would make the decision easier. I wonder if they will give us the option after we finish training to give up our Xjet #. I guess it is time to call Neal unless the MOU explains things better. Hopefully we'll see it in the mail soon!

Also in regards to our call back to Xjet, I'm estimating around February or March it will start back up. If you look at the recall schedule prior to the CAL furloughs, you'll see 32 a month starting in August. Well about 150 guys from CAL flow down, so divide 150 by 32 you come up with approximately a 5 month delay in the Xjet recall schedule. I got a feeling that us higher up guys/gals on the recall list might get this pay protection again but now at SkyWest pay rates instead of Commuteair, I guess we'll see.

Oh, by the way thanks for the pilot domcilies info.

 

[Bluto]

Good points, all

WMU, I already talked to Neal about this and he said no-go on staying at Skywest. The way I see it is this: CAL paid for the training at CommutAir and since they arranged the employment they can pretty well dictate how long that arrangement lasts. I agree that it would be nice to have the option to stay.

"I got a feeling that us higher up guys/gals on the recall list might get this pay protection again but now at SkyWest pay rates instead of Commuteair." I very seriously doubt it. Dude, I wouldn't hold your breath.

Vorleron, thanks for not taking me too seriously before! The latest I heard from Neal on recalls is 8-10 months at the earliest. I guess that's pretty close to what you said.

'but I do know they might as well have said "5 years from next tuesday..." ' <---- Well said! Never were truer words spoken!

 

[Dr. Hootie]

Big decision, looking for input

O.K. so here's a question, it's a "what would you do?" question.

I'm a furloughed Coex pilot (hire date 05/21/01). I might have an opportunity to get on with a 135 operator flying Metro's. When talking to the D.O., he laughingly stated that upgrade times were pretty quick (I didn't get a firm time frame).
So the question is this, should I fly for the 135 operator:

(maintenance - average at best; schedule - gruelling; pay - f/o's eating Ramen; managers - crusty; domiciles - let's not even talk about that; you all get the picture - a typical 135 metro job)

and hope to upgrade soon and start getting some Turbine PIC or should I go with Skywest and be an F/O (pt. 121 time) until I can be an F/O again for Coex.

It may seem like a no brainer, but it's a gamble because of the question of how much longer I will be furloughed - it's a 1 year commitment at the 135 job, not to mention the risk of giving up a 121 postition to fly in the aforementioned 135 enviroment.

I know this is a tangent, but I know I can pick up some opinions here on this thread. Thanks in advance.

The good Doctor Hootie.

 

[Bluto]

I'd go with the 135 Gig. It'll be a long time before you can get turbine PIC at XJT. A one year commitment isn't that bad when you think that with your seniority you probably won't see a recall for about a year anyway. If it does happen earlier (anybody want to make a small wager that it won't??) you can always bypass your recall while building turbine PIC. If it's that bad, you can always quit and find another job in the meantime.

 

[embdrvr]

135 Metro job

So let's say you take the Metro position. Will they expect you to extend that 1 year committment if you upgrade. I know of some operators that extend the committment before typing you. I'd ask about that or you may find yourself in a position where you can't upgrade without being able to go back to COex.

 

[s.o.sJTB]

Re: Big decision, looking for input

and hope to upgrade soon and start getting some Turbine PIC or should I go with Skywest and be an F/O (pt. 121 time) until I can be an F/O again for Coex.

What good is 1,000 turbine PIC hours going to do for you in this environement? Go to SkyWest you will upgrade in about a year, 2 at the most, work for a great company with great employees, make more money in your second year than you would flying 135 frieght, and have a better quality of life.

 

[Metro A-Team]

To Metro or not to Metro...

Dr. Hootie,

The Metro is truely a challenging and fun airplane to fly. If you're used to "wheels up...autopilot on" you will have fun in the Sanantone Sewer Tube.

If you bypass the SkyWest thing and keep your number @ Xjet AND get a paycheck with the possibility of the PIC Turb. I'd probably try it. You've got the 121 box checked but without the PIC you still will be unable to apply to some majors (like FedEX).

Now. s.o.sJTB does have some valid points and yes, 135 can be scary at times but all in all the Metro is a pretty decent airframe. I guess there are still about 600 flying in the US. I have about 2000 hrs in "The Tube" and only had one REAL emergency.

Send me a private message if you want more info about 135, freight, or Metros. Good luck.

 

[Dr. Hootie]

Fellow Pilots,

Thanks for all the great input. As many of you know, making decisions like these are best made well informed. Bluto, Embdrvr, SOSjtb, and Metro A team, you all gave great responses. Thank you.

sosjtb, to answer your question "what good is 1000 turbine PIC in this enviroment" is this: This enviroment will not be here forever and I'm looking for the best path to the majors. They will be hiring again someday in the distant future and Turbine PIC is the gold standard. I'll be more satisfied and better positioned 18 months from now when being recalled to Coex with 1,000 +- hours turbine PIC than with 1000+- hours turbine SIC. A couple years seating in the right seat, which realistically "in this enviroment" is a guarentee (no more 12 month upgrades as far as I can tell.)

 

[s.o.sJTB]

Upgrades in the Brazzilia at SkyWest were offered to new hire's who had the time back in Dec, most FO's are staying in the RJ's with an upgrade of about 3 years. There will most likely be no Majors hiring aside from SW/JB in the next five years. 1000 hrs of 135 Metro time is going to face you with some stiff competition with those furloughed and looking at the few hiring oppurtunities. I had a choice almost three years ago to take an upgrade into turbine equipment at a very well run 135 company or go to SkyWest, coming here was the best decision I made. At the time I left guys with the time flying for my former frieght company were going to Southwest, that was my Chief's attempt into persuading to stay thankfully I made the right decision since the ones that did stay are trying to get jobs at SkyWest, Comair, ASA etc.

Good luck to you Dr. Hootie whatever you decide I hope it works out for you.

 

[Bluto]

Keep in mind, Skywest is, in effect, a temp job for the Coex furloughees. It is not a career move. When recalled, furloughed Coex pilots at Skywest will have to go back to Coex. Many would prefer the option to stay, but this is just part of the deal.