Latest ASA INFO????

[captain caveman]

General,

Look at the numbers before 1999. But we did however provide a poorer product then. I think we're profitable because ASA doesn't pay much for labor and has next to no defined contributions and no defined benifets retirements. We will acheive a better rate/retirement in the next contract nomatter what Delta does. It may take a while longer though.

I don't think Delta will sink but if it does, ASA, Comair will probably continue to operate within their own entities but as one airline perhaps with some scraps of Delta. We shall see, I'm betting my 401K that it won't. If we had a descent 401K, I'd bet on something better but that's a different post.

 

[MedFlyer]

The DOT has absolutely no information whatsoever on the financial health of the airlines.

I guess the quarterly report that the DOT puts out on Airline Financial Statistics is just make believe.

http://www.bts.gov/press_releases/2004/bts016_04/html/bts016_04.html

Every quarter, airlines submit what's called Form 41 to the DOT which includes their financials.

http://products.bts.gov/programs/statistical_policy_and_research/source_and_accuracy_compendium/form41_schedule.html

Schedule and Process - The Form 41 requirements are tiered based on the carriers’ annual operating revenue. The reporting groups are as follows:

• Group III - over $1 billion in annual operating revenues
• Group II - from $100,000,001 to $1 billion in annual operating revenues
• Group I Over - from $20,000,001 to $100,000,000 in annual operating revenues
• Group I Under - $20,000,000 or less in annual operating revenues

All carriers, except Group I Under carriers, submit quarterly Balance Sheet, P&L, Changes in Financial Position, and Operating Expense Reports. These reports are due at DOT 40 days after the end of the calendar quarter. These reports are made available to the public after the DOT performs edits on the data. This usually takes two weeks. Group I Under carriers submit semiannual Balance Sheet, P&L, and Operating Expense Reports, which are due at DOT 40 days after the end of the reporting period.

 

[spinproof]

First thank you medflyer, although you're dealing with an intellect that will defile you while their ship sinks under the weight of their own supidity, I salute you in your tenacity to bring the obvious to the table!

Dangerkitty:
Yes you are an arrogant mainline pilot. Better to remain a quiet fool than to speak and remove all doubt! (see medflyer post for answers to your post)

DAL737FO

Obviously there is a reason you are a FO, that you are furloughed and that you fly freight ...God bless you on the last one! As to being clueless I submit that you and Dangerkitty fill that bill quite nicely!

Moreover I'm available for interschoolastic gymnastics if you a$$clowns persist in in being dickheads! Sabe uestead!

 

[General Lee]

SPINPROOF is a JEALOUS IDIOT. Enough said.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[DAL737FO]

First thank you medflyer, although you're dealing with an intellect that will defile you while their ship sinks under the weight of their own supidity, I salute you in your tenacity to bring the obvious to the table!

Dangerkitty:
Yes you are an arrogant mainline pilot. Better to remain a quiet fool than to speak and remove all doubt! (see medflyer post for answers to your post)

DAL737FO

Obviously there is a reason you are a FO, that you are furloughed and that you fly freight ...God bless you on the last one! As to being clueless I submit that you and Dangerkitty fill that bill quite nicely!

Moreover I'm available for interschoolastic gymnastics if you a$$clowns persist in in being dickheads! Sabe uestead!

Medflyer,

Thanks for the link. I did not know that the DOT had that info, however it's not as complete as the companies SEC 10k, 10Q or an 8k statement. I'll stick to the SEC for financial information.

Spinproof,

I don't know what mainline pilot beat you up as a kid or judging by your posts you may very well be a 13 year old with his daddy's computer. Your profile has nothing that would lend any credability to anything you say. You choose to snipe at people like a child and even go as far as to have some "interschoolastic gymnastics" which I can only assume means you'd like to rumble. How arrogant that would be to think that you could whoop everyone and anyone on a public forum. As for being an FO that has to do with date of hire and upgrade times nothing more and nothing less, however you already know that don't you. Please enlighten us as to your background and your vast experience. I feel cheated without that knowledge.

B-727 Freight Dawg

 

[spinproof]

Seven three: Well I can assure you it wasn't a Delta mainliner!! You would only whine about your clothes being wrinkled and you would have to have someone hold your hat,ect.! If your only retort is how "juvenile" the conversation is then why are you participating? As to you being cheated of knowledge I find that the only intelligent thing you've said so far.

General:
If only you would take your own advice!...really enough said!

 

[bvt1151]

Can you post these filings? I find it hard to believe they would be in a DOT filing and not an SEC filing, you know considering they have to do with expenses.

I thought you'd never ask...

The following are Comair's expenses for Q1 2004 which apparently shouldn't exist:

Depreciation: $16,852,000
Amortization on Capital Leases: $27,000
​

Insurance: $4,059,000
Landing Fees: $8,804,000
Outside Equipment: $19,919,000
Rentals: $32,612,000
​

Advertising: $74,000

The following are ASA's expenses for Q1 2004 which also shouldn't exist:

Depreciation: $16,060,000

Amortization on Capital Leases: $422,000
​

Insurance: $3,028,000
Landing Fees: $4,781,000
Outside Equipment: $14,207,000
Rentals: $22,879,000
Advertising: $72,000


For those who think I'm making these up, here's what the CFR's have to say about it:

From 14CFR Part 241:

Each large certificated air carrier
shall keep its books of account, records
and memoranda and make reports to
the BTS in accordance with this system
of accounts and reports.

Later in Part 241:

Schedule P–6—Operating Expenses by
Objective Groupings
(a) This schedule shall be filed quarterly by
all Group II and Group III air carriers and
Group I air carriers that have annual operating
revenues of $20 million or more.
(b) Route and charter air carriers shall file
this schedule for each separate operating entity.
(c) Line 36 ‘‘Total Operating Expenses’’
shall agree with the corresponding amount
reported on Schedule P–1.

Also in Part 241:

All financial data reported on B, P
and G schedules shall reflect the status
of the air carrier’s books of account for
the period for which the report is being
made and shall conform to the instructions
contained in this Uniform System
of Accounts and Reports.

You really have no clue what you are talking about. The DOT has absolutely no information whatsoever on the financial health of the airlines. DAL737FO is correct. The only governmental source where you can get financial info in regards to the airlines is the SEC.

Really, all of this is available online. Just do some research before you call us all liars. Seems as though he did have a clue.

Using your logic I should go to the DOT for the financials for Ford or Chevy.

Unfortunately for you, neither Ford, nor Chevy operate under Title 14 of the Code of Federal Regulations titled "Aeronautics and Space." However the DOT does require that all motor carriers publish their financial data under Title 49. If you're interested in that data, you can find it here.
I would suspect you could find Ford and Chevy at the Bereau of Economic Analysis or Department of Commerce websites.

 

[FDJ2]

I guess the quarterly report that the DOT puts out on Airline Financial Statistics is just make believe.

It is. Medflyer, the DOT numbers are unauditted.

 

[atrdriver]

I thought you'd never ask...

The following are Comair's expenses for Q1 2004 which apparently shouldn't exist:

Depreciation: $16,852,000
Amortization on Capital Leases: $27,000
​

Insurance: $4,059,000
Landing Fees: $8,804,000
Outside Equipment: $19,919,000
Rentals: $32,612,000
​

Advertising: $74,000

The following are ASA's expenses for Q1 2004 which also shouldn't exist:

Depreciation: $16,060,000

Amortization on Capital Leases: $422,000
​

Insurance: $3,028,000
Landing Fees: $4,781,000
Outside Equipment: $14,207,000
Rentals: $22,879,000
Advertising: $72,000

BVT, I'm just curious. Exactly how much advertising do you think $74,000 will buy? All the marketing that DAL does benefits us as much as it benefits them, and OBVIOUSLY they are not passing much of that expense on to ASA and CMR. THAT IS WHAT PEOPLE ARE TALKING ABOUT!!!

atrdriver

 

[General Lee]

atrdriver,


What DL marketing?


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[bvt1151]

BVT, I'm just curious. Exactly how much advertising do you think $74,000 will buy? All the marketing that DAL does benefits us as much as it benefits them, and OBVIOUSLY they are not passing much of that expense on to ASA and CMR. THAT IS WHAT PEOPLE ARE TALKING ABOUT!!!

atrdriver

Niether Comair nor ASA advertise in significant amounts, nor did they when they were separate companies. For instance, before ASA was bought by DAL, they only spent an average of $100,000 per quarter in advertising. Nobody questioned whether Comair or ASA were profitable before they were bought.

The fact is, advertising does not affect a contract carriers revenues. Remember, we're paid regardless of how many people fly. Delta is advertising the seats that they own on CMR and ASA, which is entirely outside the scope of a contract carrier's financials.

Unless a contract carrier has its own reservations (like Comair used to), you're not going to see significant advertising numbers because, frankly, they don't need to advertise.

Some other regionals 2004 Q1 advertising expense:

Skywest - 1,182,000
ACA - $1,018,980 (includes Indipendence ads)
Horizon - $464,000
Comair - $74,000
ASA - $72,000
American Eagle - $20,480
Coex - $4,360
Executive Airlines - $40
Trans States - $0
Pinnacle - $0
Air Wisconsin - $0

This is explained in further detail on another thread. You'll have to search for it since I can't remember which one it was off the top of my head.

 

[atrdriver]

atrdriver,


What DL marketing?


Bye Bye--General Lee

I'll grant you they don't do all that much, but in ATL there are TONS of billboards, they sponsor the Braves and the Falcons, you will occasionally see USA Today ads, very occasionally see a TV ad....and I guarantee you that the $74,000 that are listed in the CMR and the $72,000 for ASA won't buy much marketing AT ALL.

atrdriver

 

[General Lee]

atrdriver,


I know, I live in ATL. I was joking. A lot of this current advertising has just sprung up. For awhile there, there was nothing, and they even took down the Delta sign in lights near Georgia Tech---going 85 South near Dowtown, I think they replaced it with a Heinekin billboard. That was a prime spot, too.
I am glad they have started to get some advertising out there.... But they are late.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[sweptback]

It is. Medflyer, the DOT numbers are unauditted.

You say this like there aren't SEC penalties for false reporting or anything.

 

[FDJ2]

You say this like there aren't SEC penalties for false reporting or anything.

It's not an SEC report.

 

[atrdriver]

You say this like there aren't SEC penalties for false reporting or anything.

Why would the SEC care what numbers were given to the DOT? The SEC is concerned about securities filings, DOT isn't...

atrdriver

 

[MedFlyer]

It's not an SEC report.

True, but the DOT has even greater powers than the SEC to penalize airlines that misbehave. The DOT has the ability to shut an airline down, the SEC does not. Of course, it's highly unlikely that the DOT would shut down a major airline over financial reports, but the power is there.

 

[FDJ2]

True, but the DOT has even greater powers than the SEC to penalize airlines that misbehave.

It's not misbehavior, the numbers themselves are advertised as unaudited for a reason and the DOT could careless.

 

[FDJ2]

Unless a contract carrier has its own reservations (like Comair used to), you're not going to see significant advertising numbers because, frankly, they don't need to advertise..

It's all part of the mainline subsidy.

 

[FDJ2]

BVT, I'm just curious. Exactly how much advertising do you think $74,000 will buy?

Good question, the answer is not much. It's all part of the benefit of being a contract carrier. Someone else pays those costs aswell as many others and guarantees your revenue. Independence CASM went up 66.7% year over year to 19.9cents/seat mile from only 13.2 the year before once it took responsibility for all it's costs, which included a 240% increase in marketing. RASM dropped 8.6% and overall passenger revenue plumetted 15.2%. Independence saw a net loss of $27.1M in the second quarter as an independent carrier as opposed to net income of $45.7M for the same period last year. My guess is that as a contract carrier ACA was posting double digit profits, not so today.

We could all speculate on the ASA/CMR unaudited numbers, but if they were to branch out from the protected umbrella of a contract carrier, I doubt they would do any better then Independence.