Larger aircraft for Eagle?

[NYRANGERS]

Eaglefly,

Further, they had no problem with making the 57 distributed among ALL DCI operators (instead of CMR/ASA who ordered the aircraft), thus providing the Company with the opportunity to play the DCI carriers against each other.

There is a giant amount of BS in your post. The above paragraph takes the cake.

Such a victim.

 

[Slave2theGrind]

Eaglefly, great post.


Just sAAy no to the flow

 

[surplus1]

There is a giant amount of BS in your post. The above paragraph takes the cake.

Such a victim.

Ok, since it is BS I'll change it.

Further, they had no problem with making the 57 distributed among ALL DCI operators (instead of CMR/ASA who ordered the aircraft), thus providing the Company with greater opportunity to play the DCI carriers against each other.

There you go. Is that more to your liking?

If there is anything else you would like to counter with information the refutes what I said (with facts to the contrary), by all means feel free to do so.

I think what really annoys you is not that I am "such a victim", but that I will not willingly allow myself or my group to become the unwitting victims. For that I make no apologies.

 

[canadflyau]

Further, they had no problem with making the 100 seaters distributed among "regional" operators (instead of mainline who ordered the aircraft), thus providing the managements with greater opportunity to play all the pilot groups against each other.

 

[General Lee]

When it comes down to it Surplus, those new 100 seaters will replace mainline 100 seaters (107 seat 737-200s). It is common sense that Dalpa would want those replaced pilots to fly the new planes. This is not rocket science. As far as the new 70 seaters---we have a glut of pilots that could easily fill those new seats. Delta knows this and also knows that they could have many more 70 seaters if they would help us with that problem. That wouldn't be taking any planes away from you, but stunting your growth obviously.(We have experienced the same over the last 2 years---actually gone backwards...) So here it is again for you:

1. The new planes(100 seater) would be replacing OUR current ones
2. We have many pilots on the street wanting to fly them


The rates would not necessarily be high---as long as it is a new type of aircraft, it would have to go through new negotiations that would compare the rates to other airlines with the same plane. That would mean that the rates would be competitive. If you want to try to get them yourselves, and keep our guys out on the street, then expect some opposition.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Wacopilot]

If you want to try to get them yourselves, and keep our guys out on the street, then expect some opposition.

Please don't loose focus General, it is not the intent of anyone to "keep your guys out on the street". We are just covering out interest....it's not a war, there is to be no fighting. You do what you need to do for your interest and we will do the same. It is strictly business. Your scope to me is strictly business, it is my job to try and help my interest by finding ways to get around your scope however that may be. Just please remember it is not my goal to keep your guys out on the street. I have family that are furloughed DL. I only wish the rest of your pilot group was as concerned for your 1090 as you are.

Waco

 

[General Lee]

Waco,

I know, it just seems that I know a lot of them personally---and it is painful to talk to them---so we just silently play golf--my treat. When you say you are "covering your interests"---those could affect a lot of people. I know you want to expand as well and attain a better quality of life, but so do we and the 1060 that will remain on the street longer. If something is worked out eventually between Dalpa and management, i have no doubt that they will get some more of those "self financing" CR7s, and if there are some 100 seaters in our future, then there will be some 70 seaters in yours probably. Dalpa is fighting for it's current fleet size, and any addition would help us. We shall see who gets what eventually, but don't think Dalpa will roll over, and they really have the upper hand. Take it easy.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[NYRANGERS]

We are just covering out interest....it's not a war, is strictly business, it is my job to try and help my interest by finding ways to get around your scope however that may be. Just please remember it is not my goal to keep your guys out on the street. I have family that are furloughed DL. I only wish the rest of your pilot group was as concerned for your 1090 as you are.

Waco

Not a war? I can't think of any words that could unite the Delta pilots for "war" against your group, than the ones you mentioned above.

If you are seeking our jobs (for much less pay, mind you), then expect a war that may find us with much less than we have, but in a world that your group doesn't exist.

NYR

Preparing for WAR

 

[Wacopilot]

If you are seeking our jobs (for much less pay, mind you), then expect a war that may find us with much less than we have, but in a world that your group doesn't exist.

NYRANGERS,

I don't want your job, I want my job. You are too busy blaming someone else for your problems.Your beef is with Delta Mgmt, not me. If you were a CMR pilot I bet my next paycheck (not that much money )that you would support the DCI interest, and if I were a DL pilot, I would support scope. It sucks that you are furloughed but that's not my fault. Do you not think that scope is business?? You my friend need to look at the big picture. Don't be so quick to jump the emotional gun. I know, i know, I have a job and don't understand....I am furloughed US but I went out and found another job and now I want to protect it. I am not against you, I am just for my interest. That is not wrong. I only expect you to be the same way.

Regards.

Waco

 

[eaglefly]

Remember folks, there's ONE rule of business.

ANY business (and whether we acknowledge it, the airline industry IS a business).

Economics rule.

Sooner or later.

When it comes to profitably operating aircraft up to 90 seats as far as pilots are concerned :

Regional work rules (including NO pension).

Cry, scream, bludgeon the family cat or whatever.

If mainline wants them, thats what it will take.

For those of you believing that they should be at mainline to "raise the bar" or "defend the profession", you'll be flying them with callouses on your left hand (from the gear handle) and regional pay, working conditions and NO pension.

So to make a long story short, they may in fact be at mainline but no one will ever tell.

It will really be regional K-scale for all you new hires.

Welcome to the future of the airline industry.

Arpey, Bethune and the rest of them know it. Dumb pilots are always the last to see it.

Thats the future, accept it or not.

 

[canadflyau]

For those of you believing that they should be at mainline to "raise the bar" or "defend the profession", you'll be flying them with callouses on your left hand (from the gear handle) and regional pay, working conditions and NO pension.

Can I borrow your crystal ball..

 

[Flyingtoohigh]

If Delta has 1000 on the streets they will fight tooth and nail to keep another hundred or more employed and fly either 100-seat EMB-190's or 107-seat 737-200's.

Comair, ASA, and other regional captains are equally afraid of J4J programs. Yay, Delta pilots are back in the cockpit, albeit after kicking a CMR pilot to the street.

The question boils down to, "Who pays more dues to ALPA?" combined with, "Who makes up ALPA leadership, 'mainline' or 'regional' pilots?" The answers to those questions will dictate the contracts since ALPA is the one doing the talking for both 'regional' and 'mainline' pilots, correct?

As for the actual outcome, economics will play the deciding factor. Who flies the 100-seaters cheaper?

This is my informed opinion after reading this thread. Yes, I'm still a CFI. No, I have not applied to fly for Comair. No, I don't know anybody at Comair or Delta. No, I don't pay dues to ALPA. What a difference a little objectivity makes. Flame away.

 

[Slave2theGrind]

Its all about the almighty dollar, and how much management can get for that dollar.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Surplus1,

I can understand that you may want to fly a larger airplane to gain extra pay, but those planes do belong on mainline since they would be replacing mainline aircraft.
Bye Bye--General Lee

What about your MD88's that have replaced RJ's and ATR's in some cities? Using your logic, when is my class date?

When will you realize your MEC has hijacked our union and taken it to the wrong destination. The industry is losing altitude - time for a little CRM - let the other pilots in the airplane particpate in fixing the problem TOGETHER.

 

[180ToTheMarker]

Wanting your airline to grow is okay...but it should grow within the context of what is was designed to do (feed mainline). On the side of our pretty little RJs in bold letters reads DELTA CONNECTION. Getting 100 seat airplanes at ASA or CMR would essentially allow DAL to replace the 737-200's with a similar size plane flown by lower paid pilots. No matter how you slice it, thats undercutting the pilot group of our parent company. Thats exactly what Lorenzo and his cronies did years ago only now it is us who are offering to do it for them.

Weren't you pissed when Skywest offered to fly 700s for 200 pay? This is the same thing...think about it.