Landing clearance???

[81Horse]

I've only seen that a few times as it seems like most controllers would rather have the 2nd prop guy do S turns or go around then have the 3000ft seperation. ....

At BFI, they used to run two same-side traffic patterns to the long runway (10000'): one pattern turned base at midfield, the other flew the full downwind to a normal base -- for simultaneous operations to the runway. It's like having two 5000' runways in trail. They probably still do it.

 

[Amish RakeFight]

At BFI, they used to run two same-side traffic patterns to the long runway (10000'): one pattern turned base at midfield, the other flew the full downwind to a normal base -- for simultaneous operations to the runway. It's like having two 5000' runways in trail. They probably still do it.

Never heard of that. Is that even legal. You state that they use to. Any reason they discontinued it?

 

[SSDD]

Before PHX became a hub they used to do the same thing with light aircraft...takeoff from midfield and land on the numbers.

 

[Alin10123]

I hate to have to ask this at over 30 hours, but here it is:

If the tower says to you, "Cessna123 you're number 2 to land behind the Cherokee"...Is this a clearnce to land?

I had this happen to me today, and I would've asked my instructor had he been there.

What i do is i repeat back the instructions and then when i have aircraft in sight i say "cessna 123 has cherokee in sight". Then i'll just follow him in the pattern. Then somewhere between now and the time i get close tower will come back and say "cessna 123 clear to land runway x" or somethign along that line. If i dont get the clearance to land i'll either ask, or assume that i'm to go around which the tower will usually tell me to if the previous aircraft hasn't cleared the runway yet.

 

[Amish RakeFight]

Before PHX became a hub they used to do the same thing with light aircraft...takeoff from midfield and land on the numbers.

That I can undertand, an intersection takeoff midfield and landing on the numbers, but split the runway for landing?

 

[Lrjtcaptain]

What i do is i repeat back the instructions and then when i have aircraft in sight i say "cessna 123 has cherokee in sight". Then i'll just follow him in the pattern. Then somewhere between now and the time i get close tower will come back and say "cessna 123 clear to land runway x" or somethign along that line. If i dont get the clearance to land i'll either ask, or assume that i'm to go around which the tower will usually tell me to if the previous aircraft hasn't cleared the runway yet.

If you don't have the landing clearence solicite one. If a plane is still on the runway, don't go around unless ATC has instructed you to because like i posted earlier, its perfectly legal for us controllers to have 2 planes on the runway at once.....

Here is a basic rundown of RWY seperation

single behind a single.....3000ft
single behind a twin.......3000ft
twin behind a single.......4500ft
twin behind a twin.........4500ft
helicopter behind twin/single....no seperation requirments
Jet.............................6000ft and clear

there is more to it then that but i don't feel like quoting from the .65

 

[Amish RakeFight]

Those figures still seem kind of close, doesn't ATC usually afford more room generally?

 

[Lrjtcaptain]

Those figures still seem kind of close, doesn't ATC usually afford more room generally?

Hell no, not here....we use minimum rwy speration. My theory is if i don't send one around a week im not doing my job right, we are the bussiness of saftely seperating and expidioutiously moving airplanes. If i don't send one around a week then im wasting too much sky. Its just like 3 in trail in the tracon.....controller moves it to 4 for extra space....less planes land, more delays etc....we got to move em close....

 

[81Horse]

Never heard of that. Is that even legal. You state that they use to. Any reason they discontinued it?

I haven't flown out of BFI for a few years. So far as I know, they still use the procedure (it's a great way to park touch-and-go traffic in its own little pattern). It was a local procedure, completely legal; probably safer than LAHSO, IMO.

 

[Cappytan]

It's a two-way street, my friend. I only spent about a year in a tower (Dayton, OH) but in that time I was really taken aback at the number of times (probably twice a month) someone came sliding down final with nary a word and touched down. Usually they'd turn off the runway, then you could see them hesitate... and they'd come up on ground frequency.

Once in a while, someone would ask, "uh, tower, did we check in?" My stock answer was, "I didn't hear you so I shot you the green light". Covering your A, there, Cappy.

Bet it taught those "students" a lesson too.....good for you! Any chance we can shine the light back to "cover yours"?.....so we don't get slapped.