L39 Albatros Crashes and Burns in AK Trailer Park, Pilot Ejected...

[LJDRVR]

This brings up a question I've always had... are private high-performance ex-military jets normally maintained with a functional ejection system? The reason this intrigues me is that ejection/egress is a highly specialized and labor-intensive form of maintenance. You are dealing with rockets, parachutes, and explosive belts and seat kickers. Probably requires a dangerous or hazardous materials license just to maintain the spares for the seat in your hangar.

As mentioned by a previous poster, there is one company and several individuals that will perform egress maintenance. The most difficult aspect is obtaining the rocket cartridges. Sourcing can be difficult and the BATF folks get involved with the paperwork. Interestingly enough, once the devices are installed in the seat, the ATF people could care less. They are very concerned about storage before that point.

It amazes me that the folks that purchase these aircraft don't take them seriouslly. Most jet warbirds are maintained without live seats, which simply astounds me. If it can't be deadsticked into a field without killing you, spend the money and have the seats.

R.I.P. for the pilot. Sad stuff.

 

[flyguybri]

Here's more info

http://www.ktuu.com/cms/anmviewer.asp?a=3363&z=1

 

[FN FAL]

Here's more info

http://www.ktuu.com/cms/anmviewer.asp?a=3363&z=1

USA is Kerlin's outfit? I thought it sounded familiar.

I met Kerlin and his wife several times very briefly at the World Freefall Convention in UIN and he seemed like a straight shooter and a real nice guy. Although there is the tragedy of the pilot's death, I would like to think that the other operator is just blowing smoke up the media's ass after some some sour grapes with Kirlin.

 

[A Squared]

Here's an interesting article of the Ketchikan crash, apparently there was a "circling" manuver being done with 1/2 mile vis and 500 foot ceiling.

The article has some data on the pilot as well as some eyewitness accounts and photos.

I'm not familiar with Alaska flying or ketchikan airport, so I'm just forwarding the article for the thread, not speculating.

Well, the ILS at Ketchikan has a 1000 ft (straight in) DA for a sea level airport. that in itself should tell you something Circiling minimums *start* at 2500 and go up

 

[FN FAL]

Well, the ILS at Ketchikan has a 1000 ft (straight in) DA for a sea level airport. that in itself should tell you something Circiling minimums *start* at 2500 and go up

Oh my...that's one reason why I tend to reserve judgement on AK flying or crashes.

 

[FN FAL]

Oh my...that's one reason why I tend to reserve judgement on AK flying or crashes.

Sorry if that sounds lame or phoney, but it's true...I know nothing about AK flying other than my perception that it's the opposite of flying in Iowa.

 

[mzaharis]

If anyone's curious, here's the website for Kirlin's operation (the article mentions that his business is also known as "Red Air", and he's listed on this site):

http://www.redair.net/
http://www.redair.net/team.html?pos=2

 

[Ill Mitch]

If anyone's curious, here's the website for Kirlin's operation (the article mentions that his business is also known as "Red Air", and he's listed on this site):

http://www.redair.net/
http://www.redair.net/team.html?pos=2

How about the Air USA site, who is the company that sold the airplanes. Red Air, tho owned by Kirlin, is a different company.

http://www.air-usa.com/

 

[FN FAL]

How about the Air USA site, who is the company that sold the airplanes. Red Air, tho owned by Kirlin, is a different company.

http://www.air-usa.com/

I don't have time to look at the two sites, is there two companies owned by Kirlin? If so, that's probably not unusual in business, especially high-risk aviation based businesses. It could even be because of regulatory or tax reasons.

 

[mzaharis]

How about the Air USA site, who is the company that sold the airplanes. Red Air, tho owned by Kirlin, is a different company.

http://www.air-usa.com/

Missed that one. Thanks.

 

[mzaharis]

I don't have time to look at the two sites, is there two companies owned by Kirlin? If so, that's probably not unusual in business, especially high-risk aviation based businesses. It could even be because of regulatory or tax reasons.

It looks like Air-USA is focused on selling communist bloc (L-39 and Chinese CJ-6) aircraft, while Red Air is focused on providing opposing forces for military training. They list their capabilities as:

•Air Intercept Training
•Air Defense Training
•Threat Simulation (Missle Search – Lock On – Track – Launch)
•Jamming (Air-To-Air & Air-To-Ground)
•Target Towing
•Utility Work
•ACM

They claim to have flown almost 1,000 sorties against the US Navy and several RCAF units.

I don't know why he set up two separate companies to perform these roles, although it could be for the reasons you mentioned, or to simplify some of the paperwork for defense contracts.

 

[Ill Mitch]

I don't have time to look at the two sites, is there two companies owned by Kirlin? If so, that's probably not unusual in business, especially high-risk aviation based businesses. It could even be because of regulatory or tax reasons.

Yup, two companies owned by Kirlin. Air USA and Red Air.

 

[Big Duke Six]

I don't know why he set up two separate companies to perform these roles, although it could be for the reasons you mentioned, or to simplify some of the paperwork for defense contracts.

Why does that seem strange? I dealt with Don for several years on many things relating to his businesses, and trust me, importing aircraft (Air USA)from former eastern-bloc countries can be difficult, sometimes intense, work. His contracting activities (Red Air) also involve dealing with enormous amounts of bureacracy. It's definitely not a case of any kind of smoke and mirrors. They are two different activities, hence two different businesses.

This is not meant as a defense or indictment of Don Kirlin, because I don't have any explanation for what happened on this particular day. I just wanted to throw a little more light on things here.

In any case, RIP Stephen

 

[Laxman]

Sounds just like trying to eject outside of the envelope. And 10,000' is a T-38ism. ACESII seat can go lower. And a 0/0 doesnt mean you'll still survive. The time required by the seat might still be too much before your jet impacts the ground.

I'm happily surprised that there is a company that supports live seats for these types of jets. There is no way I'd fly one without a live seat. The guys flying Mig-21s without a live seat are just plain crazy.

 

[FN FAL]

Why does that seem strange? I dealt with Don for several years on many things relating to his businesses, and trust me, importing aircraft (Air USA)from former eastern-bloc countries can be difficult, sometimes intense, work. His contracting activities (Red Air) also involve dealing with enormous amounts of bureacracy. It's definitely not a case of any kind of smoke and mirrors. They are two different activities, hence two different businesses.

This is not meant as a defense or indictment of Don Kirlin, because I don't have any explanation for what happened on this particular day. I just wanted to throw a little more light on things here.

In any case, RIP Stephen

Rodger that.

I wouldn't second guess the other operator either, but it sounds like there was definitely some kind of bad blood between that other operator and Kirlin.

I have seen this type of craziness with other businessmen and their customers on the net, regarding a customer who thought they got a bad deal and began a smearing campaign. Which is funny, because I do business with said businessman and he provides primo product. It's interesting when you get to hear what Paul Harvey calls, "the rest of the story".

Obviously, this incident has more to it than just what one person says...

 

[John2375]

Flying from Alaska to the lower 48 w/no flight plan?? wow...

 

[Purpledog]

Flying from Alaska to the lower 48 w/no flight plan?? wow...

He was probably going to file at KTN.

 

[mzaharis]

Why does that seem strange? I dealt with Don for several years on many things relating to his businesses, and trust me, importing aircraft (Air USA)from former eastern-bloc countries can be difficult, sometimes intense, work. His contracting activities (Red Air) also involve dealing with enormous amounts of bureacracy. It's definitely not a case of any kind of smoke and mirrors. They are two different activities, hence two different businesses.

I certainly didn't think anything was strange about him setting up different companies for different businesses. This is a very common practice in the business world (I knew a guy in the medical devices industry who later diversified into other businesses, and I think he got up to 35 companies, all under his ownership, and totally legit, AFAIK). I was just stating that, when responding to FN FAL's comment, I didn't know the specific business reasons he chose to set them up in this manner. I was not trying to imply any nefarious intent.

I'm sorry if my comment implied any suspicion. It was not my intent.

 

[Big Duke Six]

No problemo. I probably read more into what you said than what you meant. It just seemed at the moment that the convo was heading that way. Kirlin is one of those guys who people seem to either love or hate for some reason.

It will be interesting to see if his operation survives this one though. As has been said, sounds like there is more to this, and from right here it sounds like things will get ugly.

 

[Say Again Over]

Flying in SE Alaska, not for the timid.

 

[belchfire]

It would be bad for war bird collectors if this did turn out to be a "black sunday" scenario gone bad.

Er, my friend, well yes, bad for warbirders...if it was
some kind of "black sunday" gig it went really
well from my point of view...

 

[FN FAL]

Er, my friend, well yes, bad for warbirders...if it was
some kind of "black sunday" gig it went really
well from my point of view...

True. However, now that we know more about the situation, we can assume that this crash was probably the furthest thing from a "black sunday" scenario.

 

[BushwickBill]

Black Sunday?

WTF are you guys talking about...

 

[Huggyu2]

I'm guessing they mean some sort of "criminal intent" WRT crashing the jet, like in the movie "Black Sunday" where they put an explosive laden blimp into the Super Bowl.
The L-39 won't do much damamge. It doesn't carry much fuel, nor does it have much mass.

 

[FN FAL]

I'm guessing they mean some sort of "criminal intent" WRT crashing the jet, like in the movie "Black Sunday" where they put an explosive laden blimp into the Super Bowl.
The L-39 won't do much damamge. It doesn't carry much fuel, nor does it have much mass.

They weren't planning on crashing the blimp in the movie "black sunday".

 

[FN FAL]

Black Sunday?

WTF are you guys talking about...

google don't work on your computer either?

56,000,000 returns on black sunday search, the second one in the pile was this one..

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0075765/

 

[BushwickBill]

Somehow I didn't connect an L39 crash into a trailer park with a disgruntled Vietnam vet cooperating in a plot to commit a terrorist plot at the Super Bowl - oh yeah with a blimp. Sooooo FYI I also turned up some other search results for black sunday.

Black Sunday the Dust Bowl - could resemble an aircraft crash
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/dustbowl/peopleevents/pandeAMEX07.html


Or maybe Satan was behind it?
http://www.horror-wood.com/bs.htmhttp://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00002NDM3/103-4773849-1050215?v=glance&n=130


Awwwwww yeah beaoch! Hits from the bong wheres my jet at?
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00000295Y/103-4773849-1050215?v=glance&n=5174

 

[FN FAL]

Somehow I didn't connect an L39 crash into a trailer park with a disgruntled Vietnam vet cooperating in a plot to commit a terrorist plot at the Super Bowl - oh yeah with a blimp. Sooooo FYI I also turned up some other search results for black sunday.

You must have missed the initial news article where the FBI said they were going to investigate the accident because the airplane involved was military "style".

 

[BushwickBill]

dammit and I swore from now on I would pay attention!

 

[BushwickBill]

ahhhhhh omg look out for the blimp!

Princess Asa is a vampire-witch who has been condemned to burn at the stake by her own brother, Prince Vaida. Just before a hideous demon mask is pounded into the flesh of her porcelain face, she places a curse on those who have damned her, in essence her own descendants.

So starts the directorial debut of the great Mario Bava's Black Sunday.
Flash forward 200 years. The Vaida family has fallen on hard times, as the curse has indeed worked its horrible magic, and a chosen few of Asa's descendant's have perished in the wake of it.
It is the anniversary of Asa's execution, hence, in the superstitions of the peasant folk, it has been dubbed "Black Sunday."