Kneeboard anyone?

[Travis152]

Thanks for the great responses everyone. I'm really just trying to start good habits early on in my flight training. My instructor doesnt really seem to be that "hip" with Cockpit Resource Managment either. I wish I could conduct my training as a pilot of a regional/major/freight airline would. Seems like it would be much safer and just good habit. If anyone has any tips on cockpit organization from the commercial world I am all ears.

Travis

 

[drinkduff77]

I've been converted.

I used to use a kneeboard and still say if you need it, use it. Now I've gotten to the point where I have a system. Before I go, I put a post it note at my Departure airport, Departure alternate, destination and alternate airports in the binder all labled accordingly. Then the Binders get stacked and placed on the floor between me and my cap-e-tin (student) in the left seat (right by the fuel selector). I carry a small yellow notepad which I write down clearances and ATISs in a shorthand which unfortunately only I could understand. The checklist either goes wedged between the windshield (not screen) and the "dashboard" or in the side pocket. Wherever it goes, the notepad goes the opposite usually. Sometimes I'll put the notepad pen and pencil in the "glovebox" up front. Enroute chart and/or sectional in the yoke clip and my navlog (which I print out from Flitestar along with NOTAMS, etc) goes in a little bitty black binder in the side pocket.

When I get to my destination, I flip to my "marked" airport and find the right approach, brief it and go at it.

Can't say I've used a kneeboard since.....a while. Clipboard yes (the small one that came with the kneeboard). Kneeboard no...and I have been teaching students to not use them...clipboard is all ya really need at the most.

Sorry it got long winded...but an interesting discussion....more beer please!

-mini

OCD anyone?

I agree with the more beer though.

 

[minitour]

OCD anyone?

Everyone at my "real" job seems to think so too :laugh:

 

[Lead Sled]

FWIW, In nearly 40 years of flying I've only flown with one guy who used a kneeboard. He was (is) a Navy Reserve P-3 pilot, so I guess it must be a military thing. In observing him, I honestly didn't see where it accomplished anything - he kept a running list of all of the frequencies, but you essentially have the same thing if you have "flip-flop" frequency selectors.

Personally, I have attached a small spring clip on the windshield centerpost. To that we attach a pre-printed TOLD (TakeOff and Landing Data) card. Takeoff data on one side, landing data on the other. There's plenty of room for the ATIS, Clearance, and Vspeeds. Some guys will simply use PostIt Notes which really work just as well.

Find a system that works for you and use it. Your system will invariably evolve as you gain experience or fly different equipment.

'Sled

 

[rfresh]

Good question. I was an airline instructor for a major airline. While I worked mostly in the training center in the sims, I flew a lot around the country in the jump seats on my way to different cities to do re-current training, etc.

I never saw one airline pilot use a knee board for the airline I worked for. I was an instructor on the B-727 and B-737 aircraft and there was around 1800 pilots - I knew almost all of them and flew with a lot of them. Never saw one use a knee board though.

That being said, when I flew in general aviation (C-172, C-310), I always used one...I just found it handy.

Ralph
www.wxnotice.com

 

[RJPilott]

My technique,

Steal a handful of printer paper from the crew room. Place in flight bag. Pull one out when i start my day. Fold it into fours so it is a quarter size. Place pen in shirt pocket. ATIS, clearence, W&B, Speeds, route changes, arrival gate and special instructions all fit on one quarter. Im good to go for 8 legs.

 

[Pilot_Ryan]

i used the taller ASA version (fit a sectional without folding it), but never strapped it on, just as an organizer.

Why am I reminded of:

"I tried marijuana once. I did not inhale."
--William J. Clinton

 

[SIG600]

Single seat jets... everyone uses em. Some guys it's all I see them walk out with. Mine has everything on in from check lists to local approaches, and other misc stuff, and a pad of paper at the bottom for random stuff. Everything we print out, or cards we make for the flights... all of it to knee board size. There's just no room for anything else, and if its not attached to you, you'll lose it doing anything dynamic.

 

[schoolio]

Everyone (that I've seen) uses them in the 64 community...some guys even use two. Nice convenient place to put all of that mission info.

As far as civilian flying, I still use mine. Old habits die hard, I guess. Would I use one once I make it to an airline? Dunno yet, but I don't think I'd want to be the "kneeboard dork"...

As long as you have a place to write down all of your pertinent info, you're fine.

 

[guppygoshawk]

Single seat jets... everyone uses em. Some guys it's all I see them walk out with. Mine has everything on in from check lists to local approaches, and other misc stuff, and a pad of paper at the bottom for random stuff. Everything we print out, or cards we make for the flights... all of it to knee board size. There's just no room for anything else, and if its not attached to you, you'll lose it doing anything dynamic.

The T-45 single seat now??

 

[KeroseneSnorter]

I have never seen a kneeboard in a 121 aircraft.

Post it notes and hotel note pads.

The closest thing to a knee board you will see in a 121 bird is a clip board....and that is mostly used to put your crew meal on!

 

[Almerick07]

ever shot an approach in moderate turbulence? Sucks trying hold an approach still on the yoke clip while flying the airplane. Ive got one, use it when I need it (hard IFR days, turbulence etc...). Other than that mine came with a metal clip board that fits approach plates perfectly, I usualy keep a clean sheet of paper on it to write down frequencies, clearances and what not on. my clipboard on the other hand usually sits on my lap.

 

[ubpilot]

Travis,

Currently I am paying my bill by flying the tiny baby jet CRJ-200. I do use a note pad, since I have terrible short-term memory, without using note a pad writing down the taxing instruction at JFK, LGA, BOS, and ORD I don’t think I can read back the full taxing instruction during the busy time. The good news is that in the CRJ you don’t have to bring your own kneeboard anymore, there is a note pad clip board build below the side window, and a yoke clip as well. In the real world flying, there are tons of frequencies to switch during a single leg, you don’t have to write them down, what you can do is by putting your hand on the radio knob whenever you hear your call sign, tune in the frequencies before read back. Feel free to use a kneeboard, because being able to read back the long instructions at super busy airport is more important than look cool front of your instructor.

 

[banned username 1]

As an eager young lad about to take my first Pt. 135 flight, I met my buddy who was the PIC in operations with my nice, new, shiny kneeboard. I had the concept of it, but it was more along the lines of: I should have one of these things, because I'm now a "professional pilot". It was sort of like: why do dogs chase cars?

So in I walk, and my friend says, "What are you going to do with that?" as he takes my shiny kneeboard out of my hand and in the same motion throws it in the corner. That was my last encounter with a kneeboard.

One of those moments in a long career that you never forget, or my buddy's laugh as he threw it. Rosi, if you're reading this, you remember it too as if it was yesterday!!!

 

[spudskier]

I have a VERy sinple one... the ASA that is just a small 4.25"x11" (half sheet of paper size) just so I can jot down clearances if I'm IFR or notes about the student if I'm instructing... those bigger ones with pockets and folds are just a gigantic pain

 

[Flyerjosh]

Simply put, use it if you need it, don't if you don't...

I use one whenever I fly light GA aircraft, simply because most of them don't have anywhere to put stuff. One of the reasons you won't see them in the 121 world is because the larger airplanes almost always have places to put stuff. Built in yoke clips or chart holders, or heck the charts might even be incorporated into the avionics or an EFB.

Military guys use them simply because when you're flying upside down or going vertical, things have a tendancy to disappear.

Instructors use them because they can jot down critiques and keep various training items handy.

Gives me an idea... I think next time I get a contract FO for work, I'll dig mine out of the closet just to see what type of response I can get...

 

[Wang Chung]

Find a system that works for you and use it. Your system will invariably evolve as you gain experience or fly different equipment.

'Sled

Agreed. When I started in singles and twins as a single-pilot PIC, I would use one all the time. I had a little system of organizing stuff in the cockpit and in my bag. After a while I went to using a little clipboard with a note pad on it - I would set it next to the seat for most of the flight. Now, in a 2-pilot 135 situation, a little hotel notepad and the TOLD cards are all that's necessary. We have a tiny little fold-down desk on each side of the cockpit, and a clip on the yoke.

In an aircraft with EFIS and an FMS, much of the relevant information is contained in the displays and electronics instead of paper products.

 

[BLing]

I no longer use a kneeboard since my student stole mine and was out of the country for three weeks. She brought it back to me when she started training again, but I got used to not having it.

 

[John2375]

IFR approaches

I have to admit I've always had a kneeboard but truthfully it gets in the way I think..I'm going to go w/o from now on...

However what to do w/an instrument approach plate if you don't have a yoke-clip?? Most of the rentals don't have them... - I hate to be disorganized especially when it comes to stuff like that - don't want to be fumbling around in hard-IMC trying to fly and find the damn thing that fell underneath the seat...

 

[retired guy]

Single seat fighters..yes air lines..no. That`s as bad as some dork showing up wearing gloves. If you see either, watch him closely.